The not so Great Racism in Canada Thread

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I specifically said "uncontrolled" and not "armed" for a reason.

An uncontrolled mob without guns can still do a lot of damage.

Well a controlled system of oppression has already done far more damage, to people of colour, the environment, women, the mentally ill, and frankly all of us. The fact that people don’t want to join in toppling that is odd to me. Yes, you may have adjusted to the status quo and perceive that now to be your only option, you may have certain benefits that you emotionally tie to that system, but you are capable of a lot more.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The hubris to suggest that a "white man" can not offer an alternate point of view , based on his own experiences and should just STFU, and let the revolution proceed without any reasonable opposition is beyond the pale. You're a complete waste of energy at this point.

His experiences are his own and yet he consistently tries to override a discussion about the experiences of groups he doesn’t belong to and can’t fully grasp as a result. If he had some humility he would STFU and listen more, yes.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

You're racializing the situation as much as anyone else by suggesting this is a "white man's problem"

White people created it and perpetuated it. They’re still in denial about it as we see in this thread, daily. So yes it is primarily a white man’s problem. That is an appropriate level of awareness and responsibility.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

His experiences are his own..

Yep, the experiences in the quote below are all my own. Like Walt Whitman said, I am large, I contain multitudes.

Originally Posted by rousseau

From 2001 to 2017:
- incarceration rate of black men aged 18-19 dropped 72%
- incarceration rate of black men aged 20-24 dropped 60%
- incarceration rate of black men aged 25-29 dropped 59%
- teenage birth rate for black women aged 15-19 dropped 63%
- deaths from heart disease for black Americans over 65 down 43%
- life expectancy up 3 1/2 and 3 years for black women and men, respectively
- bachelor's degrees awarded to black students up 82%
- over 60% of black people report doing better financially than their parents did (higher percentage than whites or hispanics)
- black women now go on to earn more than white women from similar socioeconomic backgrounds

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

... and yet he consistently tries to override a discussion about the experiences of groups he doesn’t belong to and can’t fully grasp as a result.

You're doing more talking for African-Americans than I am.

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

If he had some humility he would STFU and listen more, yes.

The SJW mantra: STFU and listen more. Meaning, obviously, listen only to me and the people who hold my position.

I've listened to lots of African-Americans who disagree with the SJW stance on BLM. They're out there. You probably disagree with them. Or perhaps have never heard of them. Or maybe...c'mon, admit it now...you know about them and think to yourself...Uncle Toms.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by someone123

This is in the BLM Vancouver demands and the CHOP demands (already posted before).

Originally Posted by Pavlov

OK, that's a silly demand (not least because the City of Vancouver has exactly zero jurisdiction to abolish prisons [which are matters of provincial and federal jurisdiction]).

But one can recognize that this is a sill demand (as I do) and still be generally supportive of the BLM movement's central concerns (as I am) that there is institutional and system discrimination (on the basis of race) in Canada and the United States and that we need to take meaningful action to address that.

Originally Posted by someone123

If you're going to whittle down the BLM platform so much that it only amounts to "racism is bad", or "racism exists", then, sure, it's easy to agree with. You've gone quite far down the No True Scotsman path by that point though.

someone123 hit the nail on the head again here.

Personally, the reason I "oppose" BLM is that their ideas are idiotic and would be racist and harmful and divisive if implemented. (Black criminals can only be judged by blacks; black patients treated by black hospitals with black staff; etc.)

Sure, there are a few things on which I'm sure they agree with me (2+2=4, sky's blue, etc.) and I would be happy to work with them on those, but in general, I see their platform, and I dismiss them as unhinged, just like I would do with any other totally loony political party.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Yep, the experiences in the quote below are all my own. Like Walt Whitman said, I am large, I contain multitudes.

You're doing more talking for African-Americans than I am.
The SJW mantra: STFU and listen more. Meaning, obviously, listen only to me and the people who hold my position.

I've listened to lots of African-Americans who disagree with the SJW stance on BLM. They're out there. You probably disagree with them. Or perhaps have never heard of them. Or maybe...c'mon, admit it now...you know about them and think to yourself...Uncle Toms.

Your interpretation of those statistics to mean “this problem is solved so shut up” is your own, yes.

I speak from what I have been taught by Black and Indigenous people. I do so because they have rightfully pointed out that the real work to be done is between white people. They are sick of the denial and outright racism of people like you and need allies to fight back for them. I am happy to do so.

Yes, there is diversity of thought in communities. But if you want to deal with the reality of how Black Americans feel about the police, for example, the results are overwhelmingly against your assertion that things are just fine.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20...know-about-race-and-policing-in-the-u-s/

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by lio45

Personally, the reason I "oppose" BLM is that their ideas are idiotic and would be racist and harmful and divisive if implemented. (Black criminals can only be judged by blacks; black patients treated by black hospitals with black staff; etc.).

You’re focusing on extreme ideas to denounce a diverse movement.

I have literally never heard these requests. Considering them, I do understand that if you know that the justice system has, and it most definitely has, treated you unfairly then these are potential solutions one might develop. Same with the health care system which has been shown to be discriminatory both in the US and Canada. Ultimately these ideas are problematic and there would hopefully be better solutions but that can only exist with full acknowledgement and work to address discriminatory outcomes.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

The hubris of a White man in Ontario to lecture on how Black Americans should perceive their own experiences, to say that it’s good enough now so stop complaining, is just so far beyond my own understanding. You’re a complete waste of energy at this point.

Are you suggesting rousseau's data is fake?

"I see your data and acknowledge it as true but I still dismiss it on the basis of the skin color of the person who brought forward the data."

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by lio45

Are you suggesting rousseau's data is fake?

"I see your data and accept it as true but I dismiss it on the basis of the skin color of the person who brought forward the data."

I have never said the data was wrong, only the interpretation that that means the problem is solved so people should just shut up.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Your interpretation of those statistics to mean “this problem is solved so shut up” is your own, yes.

Telling people to shut up is your modus operandi, not mine. I pointed out statistics indicating heartening improvements in various metrics for African-Americans. Never said anything was solved.

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

...outright racism of people like you...

This is too wonderful. You stated that white people dehumanize other races, with the clear suggestion that this is something inherent to white people, but I'm the racist?

SJW Law: As an online discussion with an SJW grows longer, the probability of being accused of being a racist approaches 1.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

I have literally never heard these requests.

Huh? You consider yourself an ally who listens to minorities but you have never read any of the official BLM demand lists that are easily found on the internet?

[lio45]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

You’re focusing on extreme ideas to denounce a diverse movement.

Because it's failing to hit the intended target.

If the target was simply "excessive police brutality", I'd be on board.

A movement that would address things like Tony Timpa's needless death at the hands of the Dallas police, for example.

But no, that movement does not do that, for the SOLE reason that the man who got killed did not have the correct skin color.

That is racist and divisive, and I don't support movements that are racist and divisive.

If you started something like All Lives Matter and had ideas that weren't crazy ("abolish the police"), then I'd likely be on board.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Telling people to shut up is your modus operandi, not mine. I pointed out statistics indicating heartening improvements in various metrics for African-Americans. Never said anything was solved.

You literally said that the status quo is working and that the problem is no racism but militarization. I have categorized that and other ideas you present here as “shut up”. If you don’t feel that way, cool but nothing in your presentation shows that you are really open here.

This is too wonderful. You stated that white people dehumanize other races, with the clear suggestion that this is something inherent to white people, but I'm the racist?

SJW Law: As an online discussion with an SJW grows longer, the probability of being accused of being a racist approaches 1.

I pointed out on previous pages where you presented clearly racist ideas about pre-Colombian Indigenous people. If you don’t want to be called racist, don’t act like it.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by someone123

Huh? You consider yourself an ally who listens to minorities but you have never read any of the official BLM demand lists that are easily found on the internet?

I have read many of them but not that idea so far.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by rousseau

SJW Law: As an online discussion with an SJW grows longer, the probability of being accused of being a racist approaches 1.

It really doesn't take very long for that probability to skyrocket to close to 1.

I'd rephrase to:
"As an online discussion with an SJW begins, the probability of being accused of being a racist is ~1."

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by lio45

Because it's failing to hit the intended target.

If the target was simply "excessive police brutality", I'd be on board.

A movement that would address things like Tony Timpa's needless death at the hands of the Dallas police, for example.

But no, that movement does not do that, for the SOLE reason that the man who got killed did not have the correct skin color.

That is racist and divisive, and I don't support movements that are racist and divisive.

If you started something like All Lives Matter and had ideas that weren't crazy ("abolish the police"), then I'd likely be on board.

And cue the All Lives Matter..

[someone123]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

I have read many of them but not that idea so far.

Well your location says Vancouver, that one is directly taken from the BLM Vancouver demands, and you say you have never read it before, or somehow missed it.

I am not sure how we could come up with a better, more objective example of not being informed.

[Chadillaccc]

Also, I don’t know who’s been bitchmoaning about the Seattle CHOP, but those three shootings were all by white supremacists.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

And cue the All Lives Matter..

I'll match you that and raise you with an "all white people are racist".

It's amazing how you can't see that you are a radical ideological zealot, who accomplishes nothing more than pushing people away, and harden opinions. But, then again, maybe that is your intent, because, after all, if an accommodation could be reached, then you would have nothing left to rail against.........

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Also, I don’t know who’s been bitchmoaning about the Seattle CHOP, but those three shootings were all by white supremacists.

This is relevant if you're looking at it from the perspective of two "teams", good and evil, but it's not so relevant if you're just talking about how to minimize crime.

Pushing police out of an area isn't a good way to bring crime down. And like I said the highest crime areas will be the ones that suffer most if they're not policed. Police killings of black people account for but a tiny fraction of homicides of black victims. Unjustified and brutal killings by police are terrible and should be eliminated, but not at the expense of increasing overall crime, and certainly not at the expense of increasing the homicide rate.