The not so Great Racism in Canada Thread

[someone123]

The municipal democratic process in Halifax is extremely responsive and easy to participate in. Many councillors win or lose their seats by hundreds of votes, and go door to door getting to know their constituents.

Unfortunately if you show up at City Hall and there's a debate, while you will get your turn, so will others. I think that is the real problem with the process for some activists. And a debate probably isn't as fun as dressing up in faux commando gear and throwing paint at stuff, err, tilling the fields of rebirth, or something.

[Acajack]

I wonder if this inability to accept democratic decisions not going your way isn't somehow related to smaller family sizes (and a much greater number of only children) and these kids coming of age. In French we have the expression "enfant roi" which means the child-as-king, with the implication that the less numerous kids of that generation were so treasured that they always got their way, and became used to that.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by someone123

The question is why the 10-20 people who show up in masks around the statue get to decide what happens.

Because their argument, such as it is, is presented with great moral force and vigour whereas that of their opponents is wan and qualified.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by rousseau

The unwillingness on the part of some (probably mostly in Winnipeg) to acknowledge how profoundly and stupidly ugly the building is serves as an apt signifier of our age of the unshod emperor as well.

It is also a museum for rather than of something. Isn't that odd?

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I wonder if this inability to accept democratic decisions not going your way isn't somehow related to smaller family sizes (and a much greater number of only children) and these kids coming of age. In French we have the expression "enfant roi" which means the child-as-king, with the implication that the less numerous kids of that generation were so treasured that they always got their way, and became used to that.

I have heard the theory that progressive activists, after winning victories in the 1990's and 2000's, have become more "spoiled" and strident. At the other end the social conservatives of the 1980's and 1990's have spectacularly lost the battle, although they were never as much of a force here in Canada (particularly the Jerry Falwell Moral Majority types). Victories, instead of satisfying, can make people demand more and more and hit diminishing returns. I think that is where we are with huge fusses being made about statues.

Another thing that stands out to me is how history tends to get broken up and the bad episodes are focused on while past reconciliation and resolution is ignored. For example, Cornwallis is evil but actually he tried to get a peace treaty signed for his entire tenure and that seems to be more or less what concluded his governorship. While the history was 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵, it had as close to a "happy ending" as you could ask for.

I don't expect people around Canada to know about this but in NS there's a lot of positive stuff happening with the local Mi'kmaq community. A new and expanded friendship centre, and some central land is being returned to Millbrook FN. I'd guess that Millbrook is one of the most economically successful first nations groups in Canada.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Because their argument, such as it is, is presented with great moral force and vigour whereas that of their opponents is wan and qualified.

I'm having a hard time reconciling this view with what actually happened.

The Cornwallis statue issue is not new. The same complaints were brought up publicly for many decades. Previously, there were in-person demonstrations, newspaper opinion pieces, etc. But in the past the demonstrators would generally wave placards around.

More recently a small group repeatedly tried to deface and physically destroy the statue and police had to get involved. The city decided to take the statue down to defuse the situation, and because they thought it might just get destroyed anyway if they left it there.

I am not sure what to think of it because it no doubt is true that the statue isn't worth a fight over or a police crackdown. But I am not sure that a small group playing a physical game of chicken and moral force and vigour are the same thing.

[kool maudit]

I'm abroad. Perhaps I am overly conflating it with other, similar occurrences.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by rousseau

The unwillingness on the part of some (probably mostly in Winnipeg) to acknowledge how profoundly and stupidly ugly the building is serves as an apt signifier of our age of the unshod emperor as well.

It’s intelligently thought out in terms of aesthetic and meaning. It’s a fascinating and clever building indoors. As for content, I expected a shrill series of lectures and while there is undoubtedly some of that, it actually addresses the history and philosophical development of the idea of human rights surprisingly well and accurately.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

I love this. It makes me think of how fear of toppling a statue is symbolic of fearing human nature or fear of the new. The imagination becomes anemic and detached from the life force. The change is interpreted as barbarism, rather than other possible images like tilling fields or rebirth.

We are lucky to live in times when the agitating force of revolution is so bloodless, for some at least.

I've no particular care for Cornwallis, nor any particular attachment to the statue.

However, I do sometimes wonder about 'the revolution'. Ultimately, if the point is to destroy and demonize everything that makes us, you know, us, what is the end game? I acknowledge the flaws behind the people who make us who we are, but if the point is to toss everything down the memory hole once it becomes out of place in the zeitgeist, I'm not sure that's a future I'm in love with.

We admire cultures with long and ingrained traditions, but if the end game is to change Canada into Singapore, why are we so in love with these other cultures? Are we taking empty calories of modern mass consumption without the nutrition of having meaning?

Maybe that's the technocratic end-game - life simply becomes choosing one's consumption from a pre-picked menu. Sand off all the edges, all the flaws, all the sources of conflict. Modern suburbia writ large on our society. You get a choice: the glass tower condo or the generic vinyl-sided box. Apple or Android. Starbucks or Tim's. All the corporations dressed up and spouting the line of whatever the government/people of the country it's currently operating in. Generic movies catered to each country's cultural taste.

1984 thought the world would be run by repressive Communist-style regimes. Brave New World thought the people wouldn't care anymore as long as they had their soma. Maybe they were both right - you get your soma as long as you don't care about anything beyond having a choice in your consumption pattern.

[dreambrother808]

Some pretty shocking numbers. Cue the denialists.

Results from this survey of more than 500 Canadians of Chinese ethnicity underscore the extent and depth to which they have been exposed to discriminatory behaviours, and the effect on their own sense of self and belonging in this country.

Half (50%) report being called names or insulted as a direct result of the COVID-19 outbreak, and a plurality (43%) further say they’ve been threatened or intimidated.

Additionally, three-in-ten (30%) report being frequently exposed to racist graffiti or messaging on social media since the pandemic began, while just as many (29%) say they have frequently been made to feel as though they posed a threat to the health and safety of others.

It is perhaps unsurprising then, that a majority believe Canadians in general blame people of Chinese ethnicity for COVID-19, or that just 13 per cent believe others in this country view them as fully Canadian “all the time”.

http://angusreid.org/racism-chinese-canadians-covid19/

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Andy6

It’s intelligently thought out in terms of aesthetic and meaning.

Not on the outside, it isn't. It's an erector set covered in angular turd that the rain has partly washed away at the top.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Some pretty shocking numbers. Cue the denialists.



http://angusreid.org/racism-chinese-canadians-covid19/

How does one deny the lived/perceived reality of others?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by wave46

I've no particular care for Cornwallis, nor any particular attachment to the statue.

However, I do sometimes wonder about 'the revolution'. Ultimately, if the point is to destroy and demonize everything that makes us, you know, us, what is the end game? I acknowledge the flaws behind the people who make us who we are, but if the point is to toss everything down the memory hole once it becomes out of place in the zeitgeist, I'm not sure that's a future I'm in love with.

We admire cultures with long and ingrained traditions, but if the end game is to change Canada into Singapore, why are we so in love with these other cultures? Are we taking empty calories of modern mass consumption without the nutrition of having meaning?

Maybe that's the technocratic end-game - life simply becomes choosing one's consumption from a pre-picked menu. Sand off all the edges, all the flaws, all the sources of conflict. Modern suburbia writ large on our society. You get a choice: the glass tower condo or the generic vinyl-sided box. Apple or Android. Starbucks or Tim's. All the corporations dressed up and spouting the line of whatever the government/people of the country it's currently operating in. Generic movies catered to each country's cultural taste.

1984 thought the world would be run by repressive Communist-style regimes. Brave New World thought the people wouldn't care anymore as long as they had their soma. Maybe they were both right - you get your soma as long as you don't care about anything beyond having a choice in your consumption pattern.

I have heard it said before that our future is not as "citizens" but rather as "consumers".

Great post as usual.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Andy6

It’s intelligently thought out in terms of aesthetic and meaning. It’s a fascinating and clever building indoors. As for content, I expected a shrill series of lectures and while there is undoubtedly some of that, it actually addresses the history and philosophical development of the idea of human rights surprisingly well and accurately.

Everyone I know personally who has been there has had good things to say about it.

Negatives I have heard have all been in social and traditional media. Generally from activist types - which is fine of course. They are entitled to have their say and to ask for improvements.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

It is perhaps unsurprising then, that a majority believe Canadians in general blame people of Chinese ethnicity for COVID-19

Of course the planet blames China for COVID-19 making the jump to humans. In other news, Al-Qaeda is blamed for 9/11 and Nazis for the Holocaust.

As I pointed out earlier, if the globe ever is in the throes of a catastrophic pandemic of a very deadly "Quebec Flu", would you be shocked to learn that a French accent in Northern Vermont now sends people running away from you as soon as you open your mouth?

I'd understand that and even accept it, despite the annoying and very real consequences to me personally. (Anything else would just be screaming for the wind to stop.)

[dleung]

Originally Posted by lio45

Of course the planet blames China for COVID-19 making the jump to humans. In other news, Al-Qaeda is blamed for 9/11 and Nazis for the Holocaust.

*pointless rambling hypothetical edited out*

Shouldn't someone as "politically-mature" as you know the difference between blaming a country's government and blaming an ethnicity?

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by lio45

As I pointed out earlier, if the globe ever is in the throes of a catastrophic pandemic of a very deadly "Quebec Flu", would you be shocked to learn that a French accent in Northern Vermont now sends people running away from you as soon as you open your mouth?

No, but it would shock everyone if a hypothetical "Quebec Flu" were to suddenly turn us all against people of Caucasian ancestry (i.e. it would never happen in a million years).

It makes even less sense seeing as how Asian-Canadians are possibly the least likely to be infection vectors at this point due to early adoption social distancing and widespread mask wearing.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I wonder if this inability to accept democratic decisions not going your way isn't somehow related to smaller family sizes (and a much greater number of only children) and these kids coming of age. In French we have the expression "enfant roi" which means the child-as-king, with the implication that the less numerous kids of that generation were so treasured that they always got their way, and became used to that.

I guess when a child who cries and gets what they want. To stop them from crying. Well they turn into an adult who likes throw a tantrum to get what they want.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Some pretty shocking numbers. Cue the denialists.



http://angusreid.org/racism-chinese-canadians-covid19/

Is this really surprising. I don't think it is right, but I'm also not surprised. And it has nothing to do with them being Asian. If the virus had come from the UK. People would of been treating them in the same way.

The underlying issue is fear.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by cabotp

Is this really surprising. I don't think it is right, but I'm also not surprised. And it has nothing to do with them being Asian. If the virus had come from the UK. People would of been treating them in the same way.

The underlying issue is fear.

The underlying issue in all racism is fear, no?