The not so Great Racism in Canada Thread

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Not to totally derail this thread, but...


KW has never had a hippy vibe. You're thinking of Guelph, aka "Groovy Guelph."

I agree - UofW and WLU were (still are) pretty conservative places where the hippy vibe was more niche than widespread.

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Yeah, just double checked that myself, had a bad source, but the point still stands that it has really accelerated his massive wealth and even the idea of a trillionaire possibly occurring in 6 years given our current situation is disturbing.

COVID-19 and the resulting shift to online delivery is probably the best thing that's happened to Amazon. It's like a monster that feeds off human misery!

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

COVID-19 and the resulting shift to online delivery is probably the best thing that's happened to Amazon. It's like a monster that feeds off human misery!

Amazon's big business is that and AWS, which has seen huge demand as well. Then of course there's streaming video...

And people are blaming Bill Gates for COVID19?

[CivicBlues]

Of course, AWS!

I mean comon the guy basically looks like Lex Luthor!

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

COVID-19 and the resulting shift to online delivery is probably the best thing that's happened to Amazon. It's like a monster that feeds off human misery!

Also doesn’t help that Bezos looks exactly like Dr. Evil!

Edit: ah, I see you got there first with Lex Luthor!

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

In Japan 99.9% of statues are Japanese and 99% of those are of Japanese Men.

Exactly what I was going to say.

I'm sure that most statues in Russia are of Russians, most statues in Italy are of Italians, etc.

Here's a list of the main statues/monuments in Haiti. You can observe that most of them are of black people. And believe it or not, I had guessed that would be the case!

https://www.tripadvisor.ca/Attractions-g147306-Activities-c47-t26-Haiti.html

[Architype]

Originally Posted by someone123

Some other historical women who got statues in Europe: Joan of Arc, Catherine the Great, Marie Curie, Boudicca.

I think this actually is relevant because it suggests that Europeans even in 1900 weren't particularly against making statues of women. It is more that most of the people in positions of power were men. This may be undesirable, but the history is what it is. There is a difference between making statues of every monarch and suppressing the history of certain groups.

If you go back to the early 20th century or before when these statues were made I'd imagine many European countries had almost exclusively white populations. If you go back far enough in England you'll get almost 100% white historical figures because that's what the population was.

Of course, this was not the demographic makeup of the Southern US in 1860.

The Roman Empire was also built on slavery, and they were presumably mostly white. Every temple, ruin, and artifact from that empire is to some degree associated with slavery. I am suggesting that issues of race, slavery, politics, power, history, etc. are more complex than the simple black and white issue that is often presented. We don't fully comprehend the economic and geopolitical forces of ancient times, and how these forces produced the modern world we live in today. I do believe that there is racism, and systemic racism today, but have little first hand knowledge of its real severity.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Architype

The Roman Empire was also built on slavery, and they were presumably mostly white. Every temple, ruin, and artifact from that empire is to some degree associated with slavery.

There is a petition with over 7,000 signatures to take down the Gassy Jack statue in Gastown. His offence:

"took a 12-year-old Squamish girl to be his wife at the age of 40, impregnating her with his child at her young age" (The petition is here.)

Few people would condone the practice of marrying off 12 year old girls today but that wasn't so unusual in the 1800's (historically, in many areas, girls were married off just after hitting puberty and received little education). I am not sure why marrying a Squamish girl proves he was violent and oppressive toward indigenous people (maybe he was, but where is the evidence?). If there are more facts like that about him maybe they should be added as interpretive materials, to paint a more complete picture of what the early pioneer days were like in Vancouver, instead of hiding away anything that doesn't seem good by today's standards. I'd guess almost nothing in 1880's Vancouver would hold up well today if we knew all the details.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by someone123

There is a petition with over 7,000 signatures to take down the Gassy Jack statue in Gastown. His offence:

"took a 12-year-old Squamish girl to be his wife at the age of 40, impregnating her with his child at her young age" (The petition is here.)

Few people would condone the practice of marrying off 12 year old girls today but that wasn't so unusual in the 1800's (historically, in many areas, girls were married off just after hitting puberty and received little education). I am not sure why marrying a Squamish girl proves he was violent and oppressive toward indigenous people (maybe he was, but where is the evidence?). If there are more facts like that about him maybe they should be added as interpretive materials, to paint a more complete picture of what the early pioneer days were like in Vancouver, instead of hiding away anything that doesn't seem good by today's standards. I'd guess almost nothing in 1880's Vancouver would hold up well today.

It is still common in some indigenous communities today in the world. When my friend was in Bolivia he said it was common to see 14 year old girls with children and married off to older men.

If this is the route we are going then we will have to use the same yard stick for any potential First Nations figures of the past as well.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

It is still common in some indigenous communities today in the world. When my friend was in Bolivia he said it was common to see 14 year old girls with children and married off to older men.

I can't help but notice that the Gassy Jack story in the petition leaves out any agency on the part of the Squamish family of the girl. What were the cultural norms of the Squamish at the time? Did the family approve of this girl marrying Jack Deighton? Was she happy or unhappy? Did she stay with him when she was older? What was their relationship like?

If it were normal for Squamish girls to get married around age 12 in 1880 I don't think it would be fair to say all Squamish back then were pedophiles. Even if it was not a good practice.

And this marriage story is legitimately interesting to include in Gastown as historical interpretation. I have no idea what the answers to all those questions are.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

If this is the route we are going then we will have to use the same yard stick for any potential First Nations figures of the past as well.

At least two of the three main cities will have to be renamed, as I'm sure Captain George Vancouver was a truly evil individual by 2020 standards and "Royal" Mount honors a colonialist dictatorial (and white!) power.

I wouldn't be that surprised if there were petitions for those changes circulating right now, in fact.

[goodgrowth]

If you're going to apply the current day purity standards on historical figures/monuments I'm not sure much would past the test...

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by someone123

I can't help but notice that the Gassy Jack story in the petition leaves out any agency on the part of the Squamish family of the girl. What were the cultural norms of the Squamish at the time? Did the family approve of this girl marrying Jack Deighton? Was she happy or unhappy? Did she stay with him when she was older? What was their relationship like?

If it were normal for Squamish girls to get married around age 12 in 1880 I don't think it would be fair to say all Squamish back then were pedophiles. Even if it was not a good practice.

And this marriage story is legitimately interesting to include in Gastown as historical interpretation. I have no idea what the answers to all those questions are.

You will be called a racist or a white supremest for even asking those questions.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by goodgrowth

If you're going to apply the current day purity standards on historical figures/monuments I'm not sure much would past the test...

I have brought this up before but even MLK wouldn’t pass the purity tests of today given his views on homosexuality and his cheating on his wife.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by lio45

At least two of the three main cities will have to be renamed, as I'm sure Captain George Vancouver was a truly evil individual by 2020 standards and "Royal" Mount honors a colonialist dictatorial (and white!) power.

I wouldn't be that surprised if there were petitions for those changes circulating right now, in fact.

Yeah.... not looking forward to British Columbia and Vancouver being renamed...

Those ones I will have a problem with.

[lio45]

My "at first sight" impression of this Jack Deighton guy is that he was very open-minded and un-racist for the 1800s if he was okay marrying that girl and having a family with her.

Normally back then you'd use native women for 🞵🞵🞵 then throw them away (and who cares if you happened to get them pregnant), and only marry and found a family with a "proper" girl that's white like you.

Considering the above as the neutral standard for the day and the place (by those standards, someone more-evil-than-average would just 🞵🞵🞵🞵 aboriginal women THEN kill them because why not), this Gastown Jack looks almost like a saint.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

It is still common in some indigenous communities today in the world. When my friend was in Bolivia he said it was common to see 14 year old girls with children and married off to older men.

If this is the route we are going then we will have to use the same yard stick for any potential First Nations figures of the past as well.

14 was the minimum marriage age for girls in Quebec until not that long ago (as in, I remember it).

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Yeah.... not looking forward to British Columbia and Vancouver being renamed...

Those ones I will have a problem with.

Don't forget the provincial capital

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by lio45

Don't forget the provincial capital

Oh your right, and New Westminster!

Then there is Washington State south of us.

I also guess anything named after Lougheed is gone, as is Mt. Garbaldi...

🞵🞵🞵🞵, 2020 is going to be 365 days of Christmas for SJW virtue signalers.

I also saw that there is a petition to stop airing some kids TV show about dogs, because one of the dogs is a police man (dog) and represents oppression! Can’t have any positive police role models anymore.

Things are getting goofy!!!!

[wave46]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Canada is bland because the technocratic endgame is something like the airport. Good clean fun being had by people scanned and surveilled to the level of visible 🞵🞵🞵🞵 🞵🞵🞵 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵. Visa billed by drone server. So it's not our fault entirely. But some national push on the new, multicultural level would be good. Cancon. Funding. Hinterland who's who was a bit corny but I REMEMBER IT. Toronto is a mixed bag on this. The sheer human crush bends the boundaries, but it shouldn't take a city the size of Victorian London to get it.

Singapore writ large. Someone once wrote that Singapore was Disneyland with the death penalty.

Maybe that's what the world becomes under the technocrats. Places with stronger self of self will survive the onslaught longer, like a tree with deeper roots.

Globalization turns the world into Disneyland as the hordes of people search for the last authenticity in a world run by Amazon.