The not so Great Racism in Canada Thread

[Psychedelic Sailor]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I am getting so sick of the PC movement of re-naming absolutely everything or tearing down statutes because they offend someone.

Maybe we should just get rid of all holiday names and call them "#🞵🞵🞵 holiday period". Christmas would be gone for obvious reasons, our New Years could offend the Chinese, Easter is religious, Victoria was a colonialist, Labour is too close to communism, Thanksgiving offends Natives, Rememberance glorifies war. Seriously, Canada is a Native word for "come to my village"..............such offensive cultural appropriation.

Such decisions harm the non-racist movement far more than they help them. Racism, sexism, homophobia, religious and ethnic bigotry are part of our history and culture and no amount of protest or political grandstanding is going to change that. Canada would not be Canada without these things as culture, by it's very nature, is exclusionary.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

Is Acajack's Law supposed to be unreasonable, though?

I imagine that on any Belgian discussion venue, on most topics, as the discussion gets longer, the probability that the differences between how Walloons and Flemish generally see things will get invoked or referenced approaches 1.

Is that supposed to be weird...? This duality kinda defines the country and thus will have a bearing on most issues.

At least part of it is related to a strong desire to not be reminded of this reality.

Can you imagine Americans in Idaho or Maine in national forums saying "WTF is all this talk about race? It's irrelevant to us! Stop sidetracking the discussion all the time!"

[MolsonExport]

I reckon that 98% of statues are of white men. In Europe, they are all white men, usually on horses.

The problem is perhaps not so much that there are many statues of white men. the problem is that there are comparatively extremely few of women (aside from the virgin Mary), and fewer still of minorities.

I think it is sort of funny how white men get super offended when a few statues that feature blatantly racist people (Nathan Bedford Forrest, Cecil Rhodes, John A. MacDonald) are pulled down or put in a museum, whereas few seem concerned that these same statues have been an affront many decades, for the minorities that were adversely affected by these same these individuals, and their decedents. And who is supposed to be the snowflake?

[someone123]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I reckon that 98% of statues are of white men. In Europe, they are all white men, usually on horses.

Hopefully one day people will finally recognize Queen Victoria and make a few statues of her.

Perhaps they'll name a few streets after MLK in the US someday.

To me it is a complicated issue and I don't really care what people in the Southern US do with their statues. I do think that historical monuments need to be put into the context of their day, e.g. if a town was 98% white in 1890 and that's what 98% of the statues depicted then it's not necessarily even biased. I don't believe that keeping historical artifacts around endorses historic social structures, e.g. if you appreciate Aztec culture that makes you a slavery apologist.

I also think there has been a conspicuous shift toward more diverse (or abstract) representation in public art in Canada and this goes back decades.

[MolsonExport]

whoops, forgot about Victoria. my point still stands though.

[someone123]

Some other historical women who got statues in Europe: Joan of Arc, Catherine the Great, Marie Curie, Boudicca.

I think this actually is relevant because it suggests that Europeans even in 1900 weren't particularly against making statues of women. It is more that most of the people in positions of power were men. This may be undesirable, but the history is what it is. There is a difference between making statues of every monarch and suppressing the history of certain groups.

If you go back to the early 20th century or before when these statues were made I'd imagine many European countries had almost exclusively white populations. If you go back far enough in England you'll get almost 100% white historical figures because that's what the population was.

Of course, this was not the demographic makeup of the Southern US in 1860.

[urbandreamer]

Peterborough is fine. What's changed is the commercial activity of the city, like most of Canada, has shifted to big box outlets in the suburbs. Walmart started this trend in 1994. Then Canadian Tire, Loblaws, LCBO followed. Chain culture. Getting gas at Trafalgar and Steeles recently I was struck by the insane lineups to buy junk at the Toronto Premium Outlets big box hell nearby: people prefer to hang out here spending money than hanging out in downtown Brampton or Milton?!

It's the same for KW--Waterloo used to have this hippy student vibe to it that has been replaced by tech bros, generic condo culture and girls dancing in parking lots for instagram and tiktok likes. What smaller cities need: less suburban sprawl more small scale walkup apartments. Doubt it'll happen in our lifetime.

I like Toronto but I kind of miss how it was in the 90s -- indie art galleries, cheap rent, hippy run cafes, indie vs rave culture, biking was an adventure not a civil rights movement, the city and TTC were clean.

What I find interesting: small town and especially rural living. I admire the minority of people who can give an FU to the majority by living isolated yet meaningful lives.

[urbandreamer]

When the minority controls the agenda when will the majority revolt?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

When the minority controls the agenda when will the majority revolt?

Who holds the true power though?

[urbandreamer]

^The wealthiest 10%.

[rousseau]

Not to totally derail this thread, but...

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

It's the same for KW--Waterloo used to have this hippy student vibe to it...

KW has never had a hippy vibe. You're thinking of Guelph, aka "Groovy Guelph."

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

^The wealthiest 10%.

I think the group is much smaller than that.

As wealth inequity increases, so does the change of a revolt. Reverse that trend, and the chances will decline.

[urbandreamer]

KW had a hippy vibe, especially around Regina & Erb and of course in the late '80s downtown Kitchener. I do prefer Guelph though you're right. Even the girls are better looking.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I reckon that 98% of statues are of white men. In Europe, they are all white men, usually on horses.

The problem is perhaps not so much that there are many statues of white men. the problem is that there are comparatively extremely few of women (aside from the virgin Mary), and fewer still of minorities.

I think it is sort of funny how white men get super offended when a few statues that feature blatantly racist people (Nathan Bedford Forrest, Cecil Rhodes, John A. MacDonald) are pulled down or put in a museum, whereas few seem concerned that these same statues have been an affront many decades, for the minorities that were adversely affected by these same these individuals, and their decedents. And who is supposed to be the snowflake?

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

whoops, forgot about Victoria. my point still stands though.

In addition to two Victorias, Ottawa also has a wonderful Elizabeth II seated on Burmese, the “Famous Five” in front of the temporary Senate, and Laura Secord in Confederation Square. There’s the female figures Iustitia and Veritas in front of the SCC. There’s also a bust of former Chief Justice Beverley McLachlin inside the SCC building. There may be others, but that’s what comes to mind.

[Metro-One]

In Japan 99.9% of statues are Japanese and 99% of those are of Japanese Men.

So it makes sense that the vast majority of statues in Europe will be of white men given that until recently white people were the vast vast majority.

I also know that most of the statues in Japan are of past samurai / warlords and even WW2 figures that are far from being PC.

But in the end I feel most people who would be offended over such statues have too much time on their hands. Likewise I don’t really care enough to go out and protect them either, but I just find it to be a super petty issue that almost serves as a distraction from what I believe is the heart of this entire mess which is growing income inequality.

This is why I believe that so many white people are out protesting for BLM and what not because they are actually pissed off at their own growing powerless situation, whether they consciously know it or not.

The pandemic has brought this growing disparity to light, where unemployment rates skyrocketed yet the world saw its first trillionaire.

I do hope something good comes from all this but many people now are moving from “fix the system” to “destroy the system” which could have very bad consequences.

Unfortunately seeing how the US is the western cultural and social leader and currently it has no true leadership this could all go south very fast.

Messaging is all over the place, knee jerk reactions are daily now, and some 🞵🞵🞵🞵 is really funny.

The movies Aliens and even 2019’s Aladdin now come with warnings that they depict outdated attitudes and cultural depictions that may be offensive...

At this rate nothing will be considered non offensive.

Also saw the first real in fighting for BLM between those who want to include “POC” or BIPOC” and those who want to keep it strictly about being Black since around the world many POC nations also discriminate against black people.

Just want to add that I firmly believe that alongside with true racism and right wing 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 that left wing PC identity politics over the last 20 years has actually only added to racial divides and racial tension, therefore has only made things worse. The virtue signaling on social media has reached its peak as well.

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

The pandemic has brought this growing disparity to light, where unemployment rates skyrocketed yet the world saw its first trillionaire.

What? Did I miss something?

According to some dubious online sources Bezos is only expected to hit that in 2026, if ever.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

What? Did I miss something?

According to some dubious online sources Bezos is only expected to hit that in 2026, if ever.

He's in Japan, maybe it's Yen.

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

He's in Japan, maybe it's Yen.

Ah, so a trillyenaire then.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

What? Did I miss something?

According to some dubious online sources Bezos is only expected to hit that in 2026, if ever.

Yeah, just double checked that myself, had a bad source, but the point still stands that it has really accelerated his massive wealth and even the idea of a trillionaire possibly occurring in 6 years given our current situation is disturbing.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Yeah, just double checked that myself, had a bad source, but the point still stands that it has really accelerated his massive wealth and even the idea of a trillionaire possibly occurring in 6 years given our current situation is disturbing.

Yes. He's at $150B+ right now I think.

I would have thought some of these protests would take on a little more of an "Occupy" style revolt as well, with people out of work while the rich get richer (again).