The not so Great Racism in Canada Thread

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by someone123

How is the guy with the AR-15 accountable to that community? Who decided to run the area in that way and how did they get community approval? How can we even know if people there feel safe?

Seattle police officers are accountable to the chief who is accountable to the elected mayor of the city. Some people are unhappy with that system but it doesn't follow that zero accountability is better.

I guess if you don't feel safe you can just go up to the AR-15 guy and ask him to leave.

Here's a post from a friend of mine in Seattle, she actually lives in Capitol Hill:

I’ve seen a lot of negative things on different news broadcasts and sites about the CHOP (Capitol Hill Occupied Protest, formerly CHAZ), so I went over there to see for myself. What I observed was a community of all races coming together for an important cause. There were people on stage speaking to large crowds about the change that needs to happen and how people can help make it happen, there was street art, there was a farmers market area of free food, there were people hanging out and listening to music. This is a safe space for the community to come together and work towards racial justice. Everything was peaceful. I’m getting sick of the media putting What ever spin they like on current events to suit their agenda. Question what you see on TV and dig a little deeper. I’ll link a video that is representative of what I saw today Vs what’s being reported.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Here's a post from a friend of mine in Seattle, she actually lives in Capitol Hill:

I’ve seen a lot of negative things on different news broadcasts and sites about the CHOP (Capitol Hill Occupied Protest, formerly CHAZ), so I went over there to see for myself. What I observed was a community of all races coming together for an important cause. There were people on stage speaking to large crowds about the change that needs to happen and how people can help make it happen, there was street art, there was a farmers market area of free food, there were people hanging out and listening to music. This is a safe space for the community to come together and work towards racial justice. Everything was peaceful. I’m getting sick of the media putting What ever spin they like on current events to suit their agenda. Question what you see on TV and dig a little deeper. I’ll link a video that is representative of what I saw today Vs what’s being reported.

Yeah I've seen similar posts from people I know and trust, but on SSP we prefer to get angry at NY Post articles. Didn't you get the memo?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by niwell

Yeah I've seen similar posts from people I know and trust, but on SSP we prefer to get angry at NY Post articles. Didn't you get the memo?

LOL yep. I don't claim to understand everything that's going on, but I try to empathize with the people being abused by police and systemic racism in all parts of the justice system.

Two wrongs don't make a right, but it's way too easy to criticize from your keyboard.

SSP is an echo chamber, for the most part it's a very specific demographic.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Here's a post from a friend of mine in Seattle, she actually lives in Capitol Hill:

I’ve seen a lot of negative things on different news broadcasts and sites about the CHOP (Capitol Hill Occupied Protest, formerly CHAZ), so I went over there to see for myself. What I observed was a community of all races coming together for an important cause. There were people on stage speaking to large crowds about the change that needs to happen and how people can help make it happen, there was street art, there was a farmers market area of free food, there were people hanging out and listening to music. This is a safe space for the community to come together and work towards racial justice. Everything was peaceful. I’m getting sick of the media putting What ever spin they like on current events to suit their agenda. Question what you see on TV and dig a little deeper. I’ll link a video that is representative of what I saw today Vs what’s being reported.

The very first question I'd have for your friend would be "is that The Onion-esque List of Demands that is circulating fake or real?"

[lio45]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

SSP is an echo chamber, for the most part it's a very specific demographic.

About half of which can say:

Originally Posted by someone123

The worst "on the job" incident I experienced (years ago, not in Vancouver) was when a coworker told me "my kind" was disgusting and people like me didn't deserve to live. Perhaps you have been through such things, perhaps not.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by lio45

The very first question I'd have for your friend would be "is that The Onion-esque List of Demands that is circulating fake or real?"

Who cares. It's clickbait.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by lio45

About half of which can say:

Citation needed.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

LOL yep. I don't claim to understand everything that's going on, but I try to empathize with the people being abused by police and systemic racism in all parts of the justice system.

Two wrongs don't make a right, but it's way too easy to criticize from your keyboard.

I think you misunderstand why I posted the AR-15 checkpoint stuff (which BTW I would be happy to be corrected about if it's wrong; it didn't come from NY Post, word of that came from a friend living in Seattle and then that was confirmed on another person's Twitter account).

I do not view this as a black and white or culture war issue where a bad thing posted about the CHAZ/CHOP phenomenon in Seattle somehow invalidates the legitimate complaints about police brutality and the killing of George Floyd and others or allegations of racism.

I just think it's bad that there are apparently guys with AR-15s who are running check points. And I don't think that is a necessary component of an effective nation-wide demonstration against police brutality in the US. I don't think it helps the cause and it could easily backfire if there is conflict and one of the AR-15 people, who may have even less training than police, makes a mistake.

It is the same for rioting and looting versus peaceful public demonstrations. Some examples of both are happening around North America. Thankfully it seems the Canadian protests have mostly been peaceful.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by lio45

About half of which can say

I have to say I don't like posting such things and I consider myself a lucky and privileged person, not a victim. But I really dislike the trend on here of trying to invalidate the opinions of others by making up stories or innuendo about their background.

It's not true at all that I am some alt-right culture war media consumer who is completely clueless about what it's like to have to worry about being the victim of a hate crime. I am also very sympathetic toward people who are protesting against police right now. But that doesn't mean I am going to 100% agree with another person about everything just because they're also not on the alt-right side or however this is supposed to work.

For example, I am not a fan of police. I think they have tons of problems, including here in Vancouver. But I recognize it's unrealistic to abolish them. A power vacuum would hurt the poorest and most vulnerable people most of all, because rich and politically connected people will have security one way or the other. Reformation of the system is the only positive way forward. Replacing police with self-appointed local militias as an interim solution is bonkers, an idea based on an American cultural flaw I hope we never import.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by someone123

For example, I am not a fan of police. I think they have tons of problems, including here in Vancouver. But I recognize it's unrealistic to abolish them. A power vacuum would hurt the poorest and most vulnerable people most of all, because rich and politically connected people will have security one way or the other. Reformation of the system is the only positive way forward. Replacing police with self-appointed local militias as an interim solution is bonkers, an idea based on an American cultural flaw I hope we never import.

Already breaking my self-imposed rule, but "Abolish Police" is not really a goal except for the most extreme. "Defund Police" is, but that should be seen as defund and redistribute funds in areas where it can actually matter. This can include actual community policing as is currently happening in Parkdale, Toronto - also one of the only things about the TPS I currently respect. We can do more of that and get rid of the bloated nonsense that is the TPS as it currently exists. I can talk a lot more about this but again, most people here don't care at all.

[saffronleaf]

I feel like Canada and the US are among the least racist places in the world. I don't think there is systemic racism.

Also share the concerns about the modern day Maoist struggle sessions run by SJW mobs.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Originally Posted by niwell

Already breaking my self-imposed rule, but "Abolish Police" is not really a goal except for the most extreme. "Defund Police" is, but that should be seen as defund and redistribute funds in areas where it can actually matter. This can include actual community policing as is currently happening in Parkdale, Toronto - also one of the only things about the TPS I currently respect. We can do more of that and get rid of the bloated nonsense that is the TPS as it currently exists. I can talk a lot more about this but again, most people here don't care at all.

From the Medium article:
Given the historical moment, we’ll begin with our demands pertaining to the Justice System.
The Seattle Police Department and attached court system are beyond reform. We do not request reform, we demand abolition. We demand that the Seattle Council and the Mayor defund and abolish the Seattle Police Department and the attached Criminal Justice Apparatus. This means 100% of funding, including existing pensions for Seattle Police. At an equal level of priority we also demand that the city disallow the operations of ICE in the city of Seattle.

Full manifesto here: https://medium.com/@seattleblmanon3/the-...o-the-government-of-seattle-ddaee51d3e47

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Originally Posted by saffronleaf

I feel like Canada and the US are among the least racist places in the world. I don't think there is systemic racism.

Most Canadians, it seems to me, haven't been anywhere or have any idea what the real world is like. It's one of the luxuries of living in, arguably, the best country in the world.

Also share the concerns about the modern day Maoist struggle sessions run by SJW mobs.

I feel for our youth and that of the Anglosphere at large. The deck is very much stacked against them and the lockdown has only made things worse.

On top of that, we tell them from a very young age that their countries were built on the backs of slaves on land stolen from indigenous people. Everything about their homeland and its history is toxic and corrupt. It is a stain which we are not allowed to scrub from our past.

In a world where redemption is impossible, I can't understand is why anyone under a certain age wouldn't want to blow it up.

[saffronleaf]

Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce

I feel for our youth and that of the Anglosphere at large. The deck is very much stacked against them and the lockdown has only made things worse.

On top of that, we tell them from a very young age that their countries were built on the backs of slaves on land stolen from indigenous people. Everything about their homeland and its history is toxic and corrupt. It is a stain which we are not allowed to scrub from our past.

In a world where redemption is impossible, I can't understand is why anyone under a certain age wouldn't want to blow it up.

Kind of related phenomenon. There's less social mobility and greater social stratification. This will be the first generation to be poorer than their parents. And given our ideals of meritocracy (whether perceived or actual), that leads to self-blame and resentment. Emphasizing contingent historical factors like the exploitation of the Indigenous undermines the elite within this meritocratic structure. It's a way of fighting back.

I've seen an increasing trend of completely shutting down an interlocutor by merely pointing at their immutable characteristics. E.g., 'you should sit down and stop commenting because you are a [man / cisgendered / heterosexual / white]'. It's no longer permissible to use the reasoning abilities and empathy to make sense of a situation; it's all about lived-in experience. Basically, it's increasingly becoming about who you are rather than what you do / know.

Not sure what stance to take, but perhaps best not to take a stance and just lay low during the cultural revolution. Just roll with it. Engage in some performative wokeness to avoid any suspicion from the mobs and their network of informants.

Best of luck, comrade.

#BlackLivesMatter #DefundThePolice #CHAZ

[niwell]

Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce

From the Medium article:
Given the historical moment, we’ll begin with our demands pertaining to the Justice System.
The Seattle Police Department and attached court system are beyond reform. We do not request reform, we demand abolition. We demand that the Seattle Council and the Mayor defund and abolish the Seattle Police Department and the attached Criminal Justice Apparatus. This means 100% of funding, including existing pensions for Seattle Police. At an equal level of priority we also demand that the city disallow the operations of ICE in the city of Seattle.

Full manifesto here: https://medium.com/@seattleblmanon3/the-...o-the-government-of-seattle-ddaee51d3e47

Wow! A Medium article! Damn you must feel good about yourself! Maybe actually try to listen to activists. Oh, wait, you won't. You're just gonna jerk off here to feel good about yourself. Fuck right off. I don't give a shit if I get banned - this place is garbage now.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by saffronleaf

Kind of related phenomenon. There's less social mobility and greater social stratification. This will be the first generation to be poorer than their parents. And given our ideals of meritocracy (whether perceived or actual), that leads to self-blame and resentment. Emphasizing contingent historical factors like the exploitation of the Indigenous undermines the elite within this meritocratic structure. It's a way of fighting back.

I've seen an increasing trend of completely shutting down an interlocutor by merely pointing at their immutable characteristics. E.g., 'you should sit down and stop commenting because you are a [man / cisgendered / heterosexual / white]'. It's no longer permissible to use the reasoning abilities and empathy to make sense of a situation; it's all about lived-in experience. Basically, it's increasingly becoming about who you are rather than what you do / know.

Not sure what stance to take, but perhaps best not to take a stance and just lay low during the cultural revolution. Just roll with it. Engage in some performative wokeness to avoid any suspicion from the mobs and their network of informants.

Best of luck, comrade.

#BlackLivesMatter #DefundThePolice #CHAZ

What you describe means our society’s current position is diametrically opposed to the Martin Luther King quote about integrity of character.

Ironic isn’t it?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by niwell

Wow! A Medium article! Damn you must feel good about yourself! Maybe actually try to listen to activists. Oh, wait, you won't. You're just gonna jerk off here to feel good about yourself. Fuck right off. I don't give a shit if I get banned - this place is garbage now.

Those do appear to be demands that come from people within CHAZ who have some authority of sorts.

As others have said some of the demands make sense.

If it were a fake or sarcastic Onion list it would probably not be like this.

[Acajack]

Meanwhile two indigenous people have been killed by police in two weeks in little old New Brunswick.

Both cases are under investigation.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

LOL yep. I don't claim to understand everything that's going on, but I try to empathize with the people being abused by police and systemic racism in all parts of the justice system.

Two wrongs don't make a right, but it's way too easy to criticize from your keyboard.

SSP is an echo chamber, for the most part it's a very specific demographic.

The demographics on here are pretty diverse, by the standards of places where these issues are discussed these days.

I think a lot of people are longing for more unanimity on what they see as absolute truths.

Which in and of itself is another telltale sign of our times.

[wave46]

It is interesting to note the similarities between the modern day and the Civil Rights struggle. There is one element that has been drowned out and I think it might be the key one.

In the 1960s, there were two major voices in the Civil Rights struggle. The first was Martin Luther King Jr. and the second was Malcolm X, both sophisticated, erudite men. Malcolm X had no time for compromise and no spirit of camaraderie with white people - his was the extreme version. He fired people up and advanced the agenda, not always in a positive manner.

MLK - the moderate - could point to Malcolm X and use him as an example of what would happen in America if liberty continued to be denied to its black population. By using Malcolm X as the example of the extreme version of events, MLK positioned himself as downright reasonable.

Malcolm X advanced the agenda through an extreme position, MLK provided the reasonable foil to him. That's what's missing right now - we've plenty of click-bait extreme articles, but no other voice to articulate the problems still facing the community and how we reasonably advance forwards.

That, coupled with the nebulous social-media witch hunt which serves to alienate anybody who isn't sufficiently "pure" (when have witch hunts ever found witches?) at the cost of ironically letting real monsters inhabit the highest offices in the land, bodes poorly for real progress.

Until the next bad thing happens, I guess.