Downtown Eastside - DTES Issues

[Vin]

The reality check: have safe injection sites really worked in the DTES?

Opioids remain bigger threat in Vancouver's Downtown Eastside than COVID-19: Vancouver Mayor

https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/04/08/...-eastside-than-covid-19-vancouver-mayor/

[rofina]

Originally Posted by SeymourDrake

They live all over the city, near their support teams. But downtown being so small their resources are also there but seem compressed. But, i don't think the location matters to the homeless more so than it actually being easier on the system.

I know it's difficult to relate to people that are mentally & physically damaged along with addicts. But maybe donate some of your time to the homeless community and get to know how the community is run and how difficult it is to manage.

Vancouver is really filled with a lot of snobs. It's gotten worse over my 4 decades of living here on and off depending on my assignment.

The City itself is terribly run, but the homeless situation seems to be on a positive upswing. Maybe "better than it was" is better way of putting it.

My mother spent her working career in social services, starting on the streets and finishing up behind a desk signing cheques.

Its not my first hand experience, but having my mother first hand experience through the decades is definitely been of value to shape my opinions and perspectives of where we are and where we are headed.

Accountability is missing from our approach, on literally every level of the system. From the providers, to the residents themselves. No one wants to take accountability for anything. Its only a throwaway detail that gets disregarded in favor or more pressing issues, always.

The answer has always been the same, and will always continue to be the same. Disregarding it makes it no less true, or less valuable.

On the snob comment. I largely agree. My future is not in Vancouver, second half of my life will be spent outside this City. For many reasons, but large one is the fact we are on a course I don't prefer and I doubt will be corrected in my lifetime.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Vin

The reality check: have safe injection sites really worked in the DTES?

What do you think? Why or why not?

[Vin]

Originally Posted by rofina

My mother spent her working career in social services, starting on the streets and finishing up behind a desk signing cheques.

Its not my first hand experience, but having my mother first hand experience through the decades is definitely been of value to shape my opinions and perspectives of where we are and where we are headed.

Accountability is missing from our approach, on literally every level of the system. From the providers, to the residents themselves. No one wants to take accountability for anything. Its only a throwaway detail that gets disregarded in favor or more pressing issues, always.

The answer has always been the same, and will always continue to be the same. Disregarding it makes it no less true, or less valuable.

On the snob comment. I largely agree. My future is not in Vancouver, second half of my life will be spent outside this City. For many reasons, but large one is the fact we are on a course I don't prefer and I doubt will be corrected in my lifetime.

Knowing someone close working in social services certainly opens one's eyes to the reality of what's happening on the ground. What your mom says is right. An industry out there forever funded by the government is no longer holding accountability for its failure to improve the situation. They don't have to when a large part of Vancouver's population believe in what they are doing. Reality is that the system is failing.

Regarding snob comments, you need to be clearer on that. Snobs to me are those that don't give a damn about those who are living in deplorable conditions, as long as their own lifestyles are not negatively affected. People paying lip-service, saying the situation is complicated and thus not being critical, and constantly agreeing with the status quo are no different from the so-called snobs.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by Vin

Regarding snob comments, you need to be clearer on that. Snobs to me are those that don't give a damn about those who are living in deplorable conditions, as long as their own lifestyles are not negatively affected. People paying lip-service, saying the situation is complicated and thus not being critical, and constantly agreeing with the status quo are no different from the so-called snobs.

There are some snobs left in Vancouver, I would put large swaths of the West Side into that category, the NIMBY "renters are lower level and don't belong to be here crowd."

I think to anyone with an independent critical view, or a recent immigrant not privy to the collective delusion around here, its clear who is maximizing pain and suffering using broken justifications to maintain status quo. All I can say is that its not the hard line austerity types that are the issue.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

The reality check: have safe injection sites really worked in the DTES?

3.6 million visits to inject illicit drugs: 6,440 overdose interventions; no deaths. How does that compare to your statistics if there wasn't a safe injection site?

There are also safe injection sites that aren't in the DTES. There's been one in the West End for nearly as long as Insite in the DTES. There are two in Surrey now, and there's one in Victoria, and in Calgary, and Lethbridge, and three in Toronto, and three more in Montreal.

[Sheba]

B.C. Supreme Court judge grants injunction to clear Crab Park homeless campers

The British Columbia Supreme Court has granted the Vancouver Port Authority an injunction against members of an illegal tent city who are occupying land next to Crab Park on Vancouver's waterfront.

As many as 100 residents have moved onto the lot near the popular Vancouver beach. A judge ruled the site the campers are on is essentially private property, and the owner is within their right to clear it.

The judge did not immediately grant an enforcement order, saying the injunction should be enough to move people out. Campers are now required by law to leave within 15 days.

Chief Justice Christopher Hinkson gave his decision at the B.C. Supreme Court in Vancouver Wednesday afternoon after two separate days of deliberation.

Hinkson said allowing campers to stay on the port's land would lead to the same health and safety concerns seen at Oppenheimer, noting that the camp is already seeing incidents of drug use and discarded needles.

...

[whatnext]

Start the countdown for which public space they head to next. Any bets where?

[chowhou]

Hopefully this will influence some to accept the housing offers from the CoV, but I imagine a lot will simply move to the next available park. CRAB was the closest to Oppenheimer, so I'd put my money on MacLean park.

[logan5]

Vancouver is paradise for homeless people. We could build 10 000 units of social housing, and we would still have squatters taking over parks and demanding housing.

I've lived in this city for many years now, and it's clear that the homeless problem is never going to get better. Now there are tents and tarps in Mt. Pleasant, so it is in fact getting worse. I think the tipping point for me was seeing a homeless person squat down and take a crap right out in the open at that park in front of Pacific Central Station. I'm becoming more inclined to see the City use firmer tactics.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Start the countdown for which public space they head to next. Any bets where?

Also from the article (I didn't see the point of starting any flames with it... )

Chrissy Brett, a defendant in the case, says she's disappointed with the outcome of the court ruling.

She says she's unsure what will happen next, but she proposed setting up another encampment outside the B.C. Supreme Court.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

3.6 million visits to inject illicit drugs: 6,440 overdose interventions; no deaths. How does that compare to your statistics if there wasn't a safe injection site?

There are also safe injection sites that aren't in the DTES. There's been one in the West End for nearly as long as Insite in the DTES. There are two in Surrey now, and there's one in Victoria, and in Calgary, and Lethbridge, and three in Toronto, and three more in Montreal.

And the number of deaths due to overdose keeps rising. Obviously that is successful.

Rather, you should be asking the question, "what are the statistics if there is a strict and strong programme to treat addicts".

[Vin]

Originally Posted by chowhou

Hopefully this will influence some to accept the housing offers from the CoV, but I imagine a lot will simply move to the next available park. CRAB was the closest to Oppenheimer, so I'd put my money on MacLean park.

No more carrots now it's time for sticks.

[SeymourDrake]

What exactly is it that bothers a lot of you about the homeless?

You can come at the issue from many different angles.

Within those opinions which are more likely to get dealt with?

If a Massive City like Los Angeles can't figure it out, how can we expect a City the size of Vancouver to figure it out.

You could arguse well Vancouver is a smaller city and thus less numbers to deal with.

My Answer to it all is and always will be, make it illegal to be homeless. The Govt needs to do what they need to do to make it happen

Otherwise nothing will change, the numbers will build back up year after year.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

And the number of deaths due to overdose keeps rising. Obviously that is successful.

Rather, you should be asking the question, "what are the statistics if there is a strict and strong programme to treat addicts".

If you read the reports, you'd see that the impact of Covid 19 (people using alone, rather than with someone around to help if there's an adverse reaction, and a less safe drug supply) are why there have been more overdoses. The highest recent rate of overdose deaths are in Northern Health, not in the Lower Mainland.

A more predictable drug supply and more safe consumption sites are the approach favoured by Health Authorities. Existing policing policies may increase the overdose statistics. Some users won't call 911 because they fear the police will show up, rather than a medical intervention. Other studies suggest some users 'rush inject' if they see police, leading to a higher probablity of an overdose, but avoiding a possible posession charge. De-criminalization, and substitution of a safe drug supply are favoured by both Dr Patricia Daly and Dr Bonnie Henry.

Legalization of all drugs would probably too difficult for politicians to adopt, although Dr Daly supports that too, and it doesn't seem as if the world fell apart after cannabis use became legal. De-criminalization seems like an approach that could help, and more treatment options would also help, but that's going to cost more than we currently spend.

[WarrenC12]

Yeah kind of weird how Dr. Henry is a hero now, but was ignored while advocating for a safe supply.

I don't have the answers, having people not accept housing is ridiculous, and the poverty pimps down there are half of the problem.

That said, we can't make people do anything unless we override the Charter.

[whatnext]

Interestingly the CBC had a piece suggesting CERB is contributing to overdose deaths, as it is putting more money into the hands of addicts:

...Outreach workers attribute the death toll in part to the effect of physical distancing rules on people struggling with addiction and living alone; with no one watching out for them, and with no easy access to their drugs of choice, some are obtaining tainted street drugs and overdosing in isolation.

But many outreach workers also say the CERB benefit is putting too much temptation in the way of struggling users by providing sudden infusions of cash with few questions asked.

Dying alone
The benefit was introduced in March to help millions of Canadians left jobless by the pandemic by providing them with $2,000 every four weeks.

Hopkins said she knows of clients who received payments, rented hotel rooms and died alone of overdoses.

There is "no question" that the CERB program is contributing to an increase in overdoses, she said....

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cerb-pandemic-opioid-addiction-overdose-1.5606188

[rofina]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Yeah kind of weird how Dr. Henry is a hero now, but was ignored while advocating for a safe supply.

I don't have the answers, having people not accept housing is ridiculous, and the poverty pimps down there are half of the problem.

That said, we can't make people do anything unless we override the Charter.

This is a struggle for me too.

I respect individual rights and freedoms, I think its a key component to making a society desirable and livable.

But there does come a point where taking advantage of the system must be recognized and corrected.

We cant be simultaneous spending hundredths of millions on housing, and having people refuse it, only to use and defecate in public.

We cant be having people demanding to function autonomously while they require special treatment because of addiction or mental illness.

Empathy and compassion, like everything else in the world, needs to be balanced.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by Changing City

If you read the reports, you'd see that the impact of Covid 19 (people using alone, rather than with someone around to help if there's an adverse reaction, and a less safe drug supply) are why there have been more overdoses. The highest recent rate of overdose deaths are in Northern Health, not in the Lower Mainland.

A more predictable drug supply and more safe consumption sites are the approach favoured by Health Authorities. Existing policing policies may increase the overdose statistics. Some users won't call 911 because they fear the police will show up, rather than a medical intervention. Other studies suggest some users 'rush inject' if they see police, leading to a higher probablity of an overdose, but avoiding a possible posession charge. De-criminalization, and substitution of a safe drug supply are favoured by both Dr Patricia Daly and Dr Bonnie Henry.

Legalization of all drugs would probably too difficult for politicians to adopt, although Dr Daly supports that too, and it doesn't seem as if the world fell apart after cannabis use became legal. De-criminalization seems like an approach that could help, and more treatment options would also help, but that's going to cost more than we currently spend.

Yes, and this ties in with defunding the police. They are being deployed in situations for which they are ill-equipped with disastrous effects and all because some of us can't evolve beyond an ineffective, punitive mentality.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

If you read the reports, you'd see that the impact of Covid 19 (people using alone, rather than with someone around to help if there's an adverse reaction, and a less safe drug supply) are why there have been more overdoses. The highest recent rate of overdose deaths are in Northern Health, not in the Lower Mainland.

A more predictable drug supply and more safe consumption sites are the approach favoured by Health Authorities. Existing policing policies may increase the overdose statistics. Some users won't call 911 because they fear the police will show up, rather than a medical intervention. Other studies suggest some users 'rush inject' if they see police, leading to a higher probablity of an overdose, but avoiding a possible posession charge. De-criminalization, and substitution of a safe drug supply are favoured by both Dr Patricia Daly and Dr Bonnie Henry.

Legalization of all drugs would probably too difficult for politicians to adopt, although Dr Daly supports that too, and it doesn't seem as if the world fell apart after cannabis use became legal. De-criminalization seems like an approach that could help, and more treatment options would also help, but that's going to cost more than we currently spend.

Shouldn't we impelment a system that is a little more fool-proof come what may, especially when millions upon millions of tax payer money is sunk into it?

You are admitting that a contagion caused the system to collapse, and yet you are stubbornly hailing its success when other better options, such as isolated treatment, are discussed.

All the excuses you give about why there are way more overdose deaths now won't happen if hardcore addicts were made to go into cold turkey treatment, would they? Therefore blood is in the hands of those who show false sympathy and keep supporting the failing status quo. Many more lives could have been saved, and not only that, but people made to be contributing members to society once again. Instead, they are left to die.


OVERDOSE DEATHS IN B.C. LAST MONTH SURPASS THE PROVINCE’S COVID-19 DEATHS
Dana Bowen | June 11, 2020
https://604now.com/overdose-deaths-bc-surpass-covid-19/