The not so Great Racism in Canada Thread

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

If that's your takeaway, I think you're missing the point by a country mile.

Yep. We're back to "straight pride" parades.

[kwoldtimer]

To tortured analogies and bizarre "thought exercises" (sic), we add stout defence of the status quo and systemic racism.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by someone123

But there is a huge difference between enforced segregation, geographical segregation that exists due to historical reasons (and may only affect 10% of the remaining population since 90% moved away from these isolated rural areas), and things that have been set up for a minority community or are run by a community for community members.

Canada's a big country so finding one example of something is meaningless. Many people are murdered in Canada each year but we do not consider ourselves a "nation of murderers" or say that Canada is a "murdering nation" like, say, Afghanistan (but admittedly not quite as bad).

I don't understand what your point is. Are you to say that Canadians were by and large not racist throughout our history and that applying this label to their behaviour is somehow unfair?

[someone123]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

I don't understand what your point is. Are you to say that Canadians were by and large not racist throughout our history and that applying this label to their behaviour is somehow unfair?

My main problem with that style of reasoning is that it doesn't establish a sense of perspective (was this a normal event or a rare event?) or context (what were most places like? most attitudes like?), direction or progress over time (what was it like in 1800 vs 1850 vs 1900 vs 1950 vs now), or articulate any clear goals or what a Canada free from racism might look or how we could get there in practical terms. It is more or less a low information guilt trip.

A lot of anti-racist activism suffers from this problem. It turns into people disavowing racism and listing grievances. Okay. But what about the nuts and bolts needed for a path forward? When is the social justice goal attained and what is it?

The "straight pride parade" example is interesting because in practice it's a big challenge for GLBT groups to decide who is included or excluded. Many community organizations have died on that hill one way or the other. And generally speaking straight people are not excluded from either observing or marching in pride parades.

[dleung]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

To tortured analogies and bizarre "thought exercises" (sic), we add stout defence of the status quo and systemic racism.

Come to the Current Events section of the skybar! You'll be amazed at the lengths Lio45 goes to defend every deplorable action by Trump

[urbandreamer]

Donald Trump will win so it doesn't matter what happens in the DNC.

[Corndogger]

Twitter's blowing up over CBC suspending Wendy Mesley for using "word that should never be used." Sounds like she was in a meeting preparing for a broadcast and used the "N" word when quoting a journalist they planned on interviewing for some show. Management was told and they must have went into panic mode. This is seriously out of control. Now you can't quote what people said? If I was her I never would have apologized.

[urbandreamer]

I wish the CBC would impose a max 10 year career for hosts. Why should Michael Enright get to keep working there for decades when there's all kinds of talent in the trenches?

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

Donald Trump will win so it doesn't matter what happens in the DNC.

Whether he wins or not doesn't matter, he won't leave power peacefully.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by someone123

...

A lot of anti-racist activism suffers from this problem. It turns into people disavowing racism and listing grievances. Okay. But what about the nuts and bolts needed for a path forward? When is the social justice goal attained and what is it?

...

Social justice goals will only be achieved when all economic statistics and quality of life indicators for non white people are the same as for white people. The goal is equality of outcome. There is a long way to go.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by ToxiK

Whether he wins or not doesn't matter, he won't leave power peacefully.

The way 2020 has been going anything is possible. Virus will come roaring back in October, Sleep Joe will win the election because Trump lost it, and the year will end with Trump declaring some massive emergency to freak people out. Come 1/20/2021 things will be running smoothly regardless of who wins.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

The way 2020 has been going anything is possible. Virus will come roaring back in October, Sleep Joe will win the election because Trump lost it, and the year will end with Trump declaring some massive emergency to freak people out. Come 1/20/2021 things will be running smoothly regardless of who wins.

Armed confrontation with China?

[urbandreamer]

Originally Posted by ToxiK

Whether he wins or not doesn't matter, he won't leave power peacefully.

Sure he will. He's not that stupid.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

Twitter's blowing up over CBC suspending Wendy Mesley for using "word that should never be used." Sounds like she was in a meeting preparing for a broadcast and used the "N" word when quoting a journalist they planned on interviewing for some show. Management was told and they must have went into panic mode. This is seriously out of control. Now you can't quote what people said? If I was her I never would have apologized.

Lio needs to stay in cooling towers or physics. He could never work for the CBC!

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

Are you in the construction industry? I do recall some colourful language used by day labourer types in Vancouver years ago, often directly to another persons face eg First Nations or Chinese. And they would reply in kind ha. Living in a SRO in the downtown eastside you realize that although the language used is often racist the speakers aren't necessarily racist ... lots of interracial relationships, camaraderie and drinking and doing drugs together.

Is Cracker racist? The Jamaicans used to say that to me. "Yo cracka get the super on the line."

That was my experience working in construction as well, like stepping 20-30 years back in time. My life before and after it in other realms, educational, social, or occupational, was quite different. Much of what we think is acceptable or normal is merely what we see around us. Society keeps shifting and while there will always be those who lag behind or pass away still upholding outdated beliefs, that change is relentless. What we are seeing now is that younger people are seeking to accelerate that further.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Architype

Social justice goals will only be achieved when all economic statistics and quality of life indicators for non white people are the same as for white people. The goal is equality of outcome. There is a long way to go.

This almost sounds like a Trump directive. What metrics? What indicators? All of them! We'll be the most equal society ever! It's gonna be great!

Let's assume we can pick some meaningful groups and indicators like income and life expectancy that we all agree are reasonable.

Why do you expect that preferences between groups will be the same, i.e. everyone wants what white people want? You'd need this to have the same outcomes. Everybody wants the same family and household arrangements, diet and habits, education, job types, urban vs. rural lifestyle, etc. etc. as white people (on average I guess?).

Also, how does immigration fit into this? Immigrants are mostly non-white people choosing to move to Canada, not victims of historical discrimination or oppression. Are they exempt or do we need to bring up anybody who wants to move to Canada to some standard? Also, how come we get so many immigrants from all over the world today if we have a long way to go to achieve racial equality? Can we "solve" our existing problems on a per-race basis by admitting comparatively economically successful immigrants who share the key characteristic?

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Armed confrontation with China?

Confrontation, yes. Armed, no.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by someone123

This almost sounds like a Trump directive. What metrics? What indicators? All of them! We'll be the most equal society ever! It's gonna be great!

Let's assume we can pick some meaningful groups and indicators like income and life expectancy that we all agree are reasonable.

Why do you expect that preferences between groups will be the same, i.e. everyone wants what white people want? You'd need this to have the same outcomes. Everybody wants the same family and household arrangements, diet and habits, education, job types, urban vs. rural lifestyle, etc. etc. as white people (on average I guess?).

Also, how does immigration fit into this? Immigrants are mostly non-white people choosing to move to Canada, not victims of historical discrimination or oppression. Are they exempt or do we need to bring up anybody who wants to move to Canada to some standard? Also, how come we get so many immigrants from all over the world today if we have a long way to go to achieve racial equality? Can we "solve" our existing problems on a per-race basis by admitting comparatively economically successful immigrants who share the key characteristic?

There are all sorts of statistical differences that can be easily explained by extraneous factors, but the goal is actual socioeconomic equality where differences can only be explained by race alone.

[MolsonExport]

In other news, Boris Johnson announced today that the UK is on track to build 3 million new homes in less than 6 months. And total Covid deaths in the United States are expected to be well below 3000.

[Corndogger]

This is from AB and makes me sick. But it also explains why Blacks are going to have a harder time than they think to be treated as equals.

https://twitter.com/KayceeMaduYEG/status/1270498281823453184