The not so Great Racism in Canada Thread

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by theman23

Maybe, but arresting a guy for throwing water would have likely escalated the situation. The police got the person out of there safely and diffused the situation. Mission accomplished. Police officers are allowed to use their discretion when it comes to these things.

No kidding. We're getting regular updates from the US police forces on how not to control a crowd.

[wave46]

It was handled about as well as it could have been, given the situation.

Mental illness or not, the presence of an individual doing blackface at a protest like that is practically an incitement.

I don't approve of the water incident, but police overreaction for the water incident would have also been an incitement. Since the cops aren't exactly wearing halos in the minds of the protesters, a heavy-handed response would have went over badly.

The cops actually navigated it quite well, all things considered.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

I forgot to add that she should be worried about a licensing violation. Sponge Bob is ViacomCBS's most distributed property and makes them a shitload of money.

Ok boomer.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

What about..... What about..... What about.....

People always imagine themselves on the right side of history. "Of course I would have supported Civil Rights.". But I have zero doubt there's a few posters in this thread who would have been complaining about "those n*****s" rioting, rather than wondering about Civil Rights, if this was the 60s. It's disappointing, though not surprising to see that nothing has changed with those who care more about order than justice.

Definitely. MLK was hated by many, many people. Today's version is the "don't kneel, respect the flag", "all lives matter", "but what about the looting", etc. crowd.

[Dengler Avenue]

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/globalnews.c...-adam-rcmp-beating-press-conference/amp/
What will be the Canadian equivalent of defunding the police?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by theman23

Maybe, but arresting a guy for throwing water would have likely escalated the situation. The police got the person out of there safely and diffused the situation. Mission accomplished. Police officers are allowed to use their discretion when it comes to these things.

Also a matter of proportionality and value. What's the value in prosecuting someone for throwing water at someone else? There's a certain tact to de-escalation. We should be proud of these officers for handling this situation near perfectly. Nobody is hurt. Nobody is charged. Nobody is spending the night in prison.

And clearly nobody knew this person's mental health history at the time either.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Definitely. MLK was hated by many, many people. Today's version is the "don't kneel, respect the flag", "all lives matter", "but what about the looting", etc. crowd.

Right, so anyone who questions the motivations of BLM is clearly a modern-day version of the KKK.

You've clearly thought this through. Well done.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Also a matter of proportionality and value. What's the value in prosecuting someone for throwing water at someone else? There's a certain tact to de-escalation. We should be proud of these officers for handling this situation near perfectly. Nobody is hurt. Nobody is charged. Nobody is spending the night in prison.

And clearly nobody knew this person's mental health history at the time either.

This is the beauty of 'policing' versus military-style tactics.

Sure, it doesn't have the same rewarding visage to closet authoritarians, but a measured response allows everyone to walk away with dignity intact.

This was good policing.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Definitely. MLK was hated by many, many people. Today's version is the "don't kneel, respect the flag", "all lives matter", "but what about the looting", etc. crowd.

Those exact same arguments were used in the 60s too.

I generally argue that nonviolent protests work better than violent ones because it robs authoritarians of the moral justification for crushing protests. But at the same time, we can also see how easy it is to ignore non-violent protests, especially when not widespread and massively sustained.

I think about this every time people gang up on First Nations blocking a highway or train tracks. Would you care at all (about their issues) if their protests didn't inconvenience you in any way?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/globalnews.c...-adam-rcmp-beating-press-conference/amp/
What will be the Canadian equivalent of defunding the police?

I don't get how reform can be achieved with defunding.

I think a bigger discussion to have is how policing is managed in Canada. No reason every province can't have their own police force. Also time to think of how FN can police themselves. Either as auxiliaries/detachments of provincial police forces or as independent forces for larger reserves. Having the RCMP police reserves is an outdated solution.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce

Right, so anyone who questions the motivations of BLM is clearly a modern-day version of the KKK.

You've clearly thought this through. Well done.

Why am I not surprised that you think taking a knee was about supporting BLM?

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I don't get how reform can be achieved with defunding.

I think a bigger discussion to have is how policing is managed in Canada. No reason every province can't have their own police force. Also time to think of how FN can police themselves. Either as auxiliaries/detachments of provincial police forces or as independent forces for larger reserves. Having the RCMP police reserves is an outdated solution.

Some FN’s in Ontario do have their own police.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

You can't be serious. This is tone deaf. Do you really not understand why showing up in blackface at a protest about the murder of a black man might be offensive? Comparing that to showing up as a member of the Blue Man group? Really?

Yes, it is offensive and tone death on his part. The police keeping them apart is the right thing to do.

The police ended up taking him home and that was the most pragmatic this to do. But not ideal. What does that mean:

- The police decided who is allowed to be part of the protest and who is not. That is wrong on so many levels.

- He has a right to paint himself in black or blue or any other colour. Why anyone would do that is beyond me. However I don't think the state should be involved in that decision.

- He has the same right to protest as everyone else does.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Some FN’s in Ontario do have their own police.

Yes, this seems to be the way to go.

A police force that is representative of the community it is policing works far better than one that isn't.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I don't get how reform can be achieved with defunding.

I think a bigger discussion to have is how policing is managed in Canada. No reason every province can't have their own police force. Also time to think of how FN can police themselves. Either as auxiliaries/detachments of provincial police forces or as independent forces for larger reserves. Having the RCMP police reserves is an outdated solution.

The RCMP provides policing at the federal level.

Several provinces (including BC) also contract with the RCMP to provide policing at the provincial level. Several municipalities in BC contract the RCMP to provide policing at the city/town level. BC and the cities and town in BC have always had the option of running their own police force.

One of the things that is different in BC to some of the other provinces is the RCMP in BC do not lay charges. That is done by the provincial crown not the police.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by casper

Yes, it is offensive and tone death on his part. The police keeping them apart is the right thing to do.

The police ended up taking him home and that was the most pragmatic this to do. But not ideal. What does that mean:

- The police decided who is allowed to be part of the protest and who is not. That is wrong on so many levels.

- He has a right to paint himself in black or blue or any other colour. Why anyone would do that is beyond me. However I don't think the state should be involved in that decision.

- He has the same right to protest as everyone else does.

The state gets involved when one's decisions are likely to incite violence or a riot.

While this person unknowingly (due to mental illness) made this choice, the police did not have the luxury of making such an assessment in the time provided. All they saw was a guy in blackface at a BLM protest - a seriously precarious situation.

While this person's rights may have been infringed, rights aren't absolute things. My right to express myself depends on the context of which it is done - this case would likely not stand up to the standard of 'reasonable' expression.

[someone123]

Right-wing magical thinking: Abolish economic regulation and the free market will give us a fair and optimal economy.

Left-wing magical thinking: If we abolish prisons and police, our society will self-organize in a safe and functional way.

BLM Vancouver literally has the abolition of police and prisons in its demands (and says they have a "primary purpose of oppressing marginalized communities").

That video with the blackface guy, water throwing, and police shows how difficult the job of police officer can be. Yet there is a huge amount of antagonism toward police as a monolithic international group and lately virtually no tolerance of mistakes or nuance. In the Canadian media these days any death of somebody deemed a person of colour getting lumped in with George Floyd.

e.g. CBC opinion piece (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/...ter-winnipeg-how-to-be-an-ally-1.5600498):

The response to the police-involved deaths of Regis Korchinski-Paquet, George Floyd, Breonna Taylor and Tony McDade is only the most recent flashpoint in centuries of struggles against state brutality.

We don't know the details yet for Regis Korchinski-Paquet; the case is under investigation. She fell from a balcony and died. The story may turn out to be dramatically different from George Floyd who died after a police officer knelt on his neck for 9 minutes while he was handcuffed and face down.

One of BLM Vancouver's complains is that Vancouver police killed Abdi Gani Mahamud Hirsi. He was armed with a knife and had already stabbed two people before he was shot. According to police he was approaching a third person.

The BC Coroners found that 70% of those who died in police-involved incidents have some kind of mental illness (source). Violent behaviour combined with mental illness appears to be a much stronger predictor of risk of death at the hands of police than race. Yet that doesn't get much attention in Canada.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by someone123

Right-wing magical thinking: Abolish economic regulation and the free market will give us a fair and optimal economy.

Left-wing magical thinking: If we abolish prisons and police, our society will self-organize in a safe and functional way.

I'd say not so much right or left-wing, but extreme libertarians of each stripe.

Extreme libertarians ignore the fact that people live in a society and that the best version of that society sometimes infringes on our freedoms. So, yes, police and law enforcement are required, and yes, taxation and government intervention into the economy is required. To what degree is something to be negotiated in public discourse.

The net effect of these sacrifices is to make life livable.

[Truenorth00]

BLM as an organization aside, how many of those attending the Canadian protests would agree with "defunding" police? I doubt even a majority can be found there.

Also in the US, the demands are much more concrete. They want to see more community policing. They want to see traffic enforcement separated from criminal and civil enforcement. They are of the opinion that the combination has lead to overpolicing and underinvestment in social supports. How much of this would apply in Canada?

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by someone123

This kind of thing annoys me because I've had friends who are obviously gay or trans and got harassed for it over and over (it's pretty much the norm for any person who does not conform closely to gender/sex expectations) while one justification bigots bring up is that homosexuality is just behaviour and so if you get picked out of a crowd for being GLBT it's your own fault for acting wrong. Aside from being cruel this is obviously a complete fantasy.

Newsflash................I am an openly gay man and I am under no illusion that we still face homphobia, bigotry, and harassment. That however does not make it the same as racism.

It is routine for the police to pull over Black and Native men for nothing more than suspicions but police don't pull over a guy because they know that there is a 3% chance of that person being gay. That woman in Central Park was freaking out because that man was black and not because he was gay.

Being visible makes you an easy target and the only analogy may be with trans-people and even then, often it is not obvious. Racism is not the same as homphobia which is not the same as sexism. Racial minorities, women, and sexual minorities may all face discrimination but that doesn't mean they face the same discrimination nor does it mean it manifests itself in the same way and hence solutions must be unique to each of those effected groups.