The not so Great Racism in Canada Thread

[once]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

JFC. I can't believe people think blackface was exclusively an American racial phenomenon.

https://globalnews.ca/news/5926620/blackface-canada-history/

This whole episode is quickly showing how ignorant a lot of Canadians are too.

Yes, people have made fun of each other for centuries, sometimes using racist stereotypes.

What Justin Trudeau did had absolutely nothing to do with that.

A person in Vancouver who pretends to be a different race for Halloween has zero connection to either of these cultural constructs. Just because someone made a racist joke half a century ago does not mean we all have to forever edit our behavior out of solemn respect for the indignity that caused 50 years ago.

The point also still stands that the USA is a far worse offender for black face in Hollywood and that is absolutely the main reason black face is considered racist - not random minstrel shows from the 1960s Canada whose worse offense was lampooning racial stereotypes.

[Black Star]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

No, you’re not racist at all.

So, when you use racist.... Elaborate please. Use your words...articulate your story.

Seriously...People like you are ignorant and exhausting lol.

[Black Star]

Originally Posted by vid

I grew up watching the show, and despite both my parents not having an education and my dad's side being neo-nazis, that aspect of Archie Bunker's character was reinforced through my childhood. Partly because we had to be the Meathead to my dad's parents' Archie Bunker; it was a useful skill.



I was referring to myself.

Hey...hows it going Vid

[vid]

Originally Posted by Black Star

Hey...hows it going Vid

As I often jokingly say with my friends, "je suis fatigué".

It's... it's funnier spoken out loud.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by Black Star

So, when you use racist.... Elaborate please. Use your words...articulate your story.

Seriously...People like you are ignorant and exhausting lol.

You have a Trumpian ability to project. Charming.

It’s tiring because it taps into that small part of you which is still alive, still free, still aware of the error of your ways.

I’m not here to do the work that you need to do yourself. I’m sure you’ve heard the arguments against what you posted a million times and still you don’t care. You’re responsible for learning. There are literally millions of things being posted all over social media which refute your beliefs. Read them. Listen. Learn. Grow.

[Black Star]

Originally Posted by vid

As I often jokingly say with my friends, "je suis fatigué".

It's... it's funnier spoken out loud.

In deed....

Written and articulated are therapeutic

[Black Star]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

You have a Trumpian ability to project. Charming.

It’s tiring because it taps into that small part of you which is still alive, still free, still aware of the error of your ways.

I’m not here to do the work that you need to do yourself. I’m sure you’ve heard the arguments against what you posted a million times and still you don’t care. You’re responsible for learning. There are literally millions of things being posted all over social media which refute your beliefs. Read them. Listen. Learn. Grow.

Buddy...you are totally all twisted up in the game.
You are 100% TDS...just stop. I get it...you Hate people that think differently than you. Its a sickness.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by once

Yes, people have made fun of each other for centuries, sometimes using racist stereotypes.

What Justin Trudeau did had absolutely nothing to do with that.

A person in Vancouver who pretends to be a different race for Halloween has zero connection to either of these cultural constructs. Just because someone made a racist joke half a century ago does not mean we all have to forever edit our behavior out of solemn respect for the indignity that caused 50 years ago.

The point also still stands that the USA is a far worse offender for black face in Hollywood and that is absolutely the main reason black face is considered racist - not random minstrel shows from the 1960s Canada whose worse offense was lampooning racial stereotypes.

I believe Justin wore blackface at least three times that we know of and I doubt all three times were for Halloween parties.

Where are you getting that blackface started with Hollywood? The use of blackface in the U.S. started right after the Civil War.

How the History of Blackface Is Rooted in Racism

https://www.history.com/news/blackface-history-racism-origins

Blackface also has a long history in Canada.

Canada’s Surprising History of Blackface

...

Minstrelsy took hold in Canada, just as it did in the United States, and just as in the United States, black people objected. As early as 1843, according to Cheryl Thompson, a scholar of communications at Ryerson University, black residents of Toronto petitioned the city government in vain to ban minstrel shows. Howard reports that “minstrelsy was very common throughout Canada into the 1970s,” long after minstrel shows had become socially taboo—not to say extinct—in the United States. (Bashir Mohamed rounds up a few examples of 20th-century shows in Canada.)

...

Source: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/09/canadas-surprising-history-of-blackface/598468/

[once]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

I believe Justin wore blackface at least three times that we know of and I doubt all three times were for Halloween parties.

Where are you getting that blackface started with Hollywood? The use of blackface in the U.S. started right after the Civil War.

How the History of Blackface Is Rooted in Racism

https://www.history.com/news/blackface-history-racism-origins

Blackface also has a long history in Canada.

Canada’s Surprising History of Blackface

...

Minstrelsy took hold in Canada, just as it did in the United States, and just as in the United States, black people objected. As early as 1843, according to Cheryl Thompson, a scholar of communications at Ryerson University, black residents of Toronto petitioned the city government in vain to ban minstrel shows. Howard reports that “minstrelsy was very common throughout Canada into the 1970s,” long after minstrel shows had become socially taboo—not to say extinct—in the United States. (Bashir Mohamed rounds up a few examples of 20th-century shows in Canada.)

...

Source: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/09/canadas-surprising-history-of-blackface/598468/

Yes, there were minstrel shows in Canada 50+ years ago that most have forgotten about. Canada has a dramatically different history with blacks compared to the USA, where minstrel shows as your article points out were used post-civil war to propagate stereo types and later Hollywood where those stereotypes were broadcast all over the country.

Let's do a thought experiment and consider a Saudi Arabian in Saudi Arabia pretending to be a black character for Halloween. Is this act by definition racist solely based on what happened in the USA? No, it isn't. Just like almost no country considers the term "oriental" an offensive term just because the USA decided it was (and how it was used as a derogatory term in the USA).

Much of Canada's approach to racism is an imported construct from the USA - including minstrel shows & some kind of shared guilt for the aftermath of the civil war.

I'm not saying he shouldn't have apologized and that people's reactions to that as racism aren't valid (especially those communities who feel lingering effects of stereotypes) - but the fact is, the country of Canada (including Vancouver) has largely forgotten about esoteric Canadian minstrel shows from 50 years ago and Trudeau dressing up as a brown character has absolutely nothing to do with racism.

I'm glad we are having the conversation about it and some of the history of minstrel shows shouldn't be forgotten, but I again challenge you to call that individual from Saudi Arabia racist based on USA history.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by vid

As I often jokingly say with my friends, "je suis fatigué".

It's... it's funnier spoken out loud.

Same here tonight (I pulled an all-nighter last night and have been dreaming of bedtime for hours now) and there's nothing funny about it :p

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by once

Yes, there were minstrel shows in Canada 50+ years ago that most have forgotten about. Canada has a dramatically different history with blacks compared to the USA, where minstrel shows as your article points out were used post-civil war to propagate stereo types and later Hollywood where those stereotypes were broadcast all over the country.

Let's do a thought experiment and consider a Saudi Arabian in Saudi Arabia pretending to be a black character for Halloween. Is this act by definition racist solely based on what happened in the USA? No, it isn't. Just like almost no country considers the term "oriental" an offensive term just because the USA decided it was (and how it was used as a derogatory term in the USA).

Much of Canada's approach to racism is an imported construct from the USA - including minstrel shows & some kind of shared guilt for the aftermath of the civil war.

I'm not saying he shouldn't have apologized and that people's reactions to that as racism aren't valid (especially those communities who feel lingering effects of stereotypes) - but the fact is, the country of Canada (including Vancouver) has largely forgotten about esoteric Canadian minstrel shows from 50 years ago and Trudeau dressing up as a brown character has absolutely nothing to do with racism.

I'm glad we are having the conversation about it and some of the history of minstrel shows shouldn't be forgotten, but I again challenge you to call that individual from Saudi Arabia racist based on USA history.

You misread the dates. Minstrel shows were around in Canada in 1843 and very likely much earlier. Canada's history with blacks is not dramatically different than America's. People need to stop denying this fact. First slaves were brought to America in 1619 and to Canada in 1628. Just because we didn't have millions of slaves doesn't mean that blacks weren't treated like shit here.

Canada's approach to racism was not imported from the U.S. It was Europeans who brought slaves to North America--that's where racism came from. Blackface is also not an American invention. It was used back in Shakespeare's day. What might have been new after the Civil War was the use of blackface by actors to demean and dehumanize blacks.

I'm not buying your Saudi Arabia example. Arabs even today have black slaves from Africa and have for hundreds of years. No need for them to import racism from elsewhere when they were already proficient at it long before America existed.

[Black Star]

Well...I’m Married to a Muslim Black Girl.

She laughs at all this stupid Racism bullshit. She is an educated Doctor who came here 20 years ago. Full stop with this I’m so oppressed shit. We live in a free country jack, and she knows it.... keep it real dont twisted it. She has never had it better. In Afghanistan....it was horrible. Her Dad was killed by the Taliban. Sooo shut the hell up about your white oppression shit...

[once]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

You misread the dates. Minstrel shows were around in Canada in 1843 and very likely much earlier. Canada's history with blacks is not dramatically different than America's. People need to stop denying this fact. First slaves were brought to America in 1619 and to Canada in 1628. Just because we didn't have millions of slaves doesn't mean that blacks weren't treated like shit here.

Canada's approach to racism was not imported from the U.S. It was Europeans who brought slaves to North America--that's where racism came from. Blackface is also not an American invention. It was used back in Shakespeare's day. What might have been new after the Civil War was the use of blackface by actors to demean and dehumanize blacks.

I'm not buying your Saudi Arabia example. Arabs even today have black slaves from Africa and have for hundreds of years. No need for them to import racism from elsewhere when they were already proficient at it long before America existed.

Blackface is a very specific form of racism which really cemented it's legacy in Hollywood through stereotypes. If everybody forgot about minstrel shows & Hollywood never made them public, then they would simply be a forgotten piece of history and no one would connect blackface to racism - because the connection would no longer exist.

The indicator for whether blackface is racist or not has nothing to do with slavery - it's whether your country used blackface as a racist tool to perpetuate stereotypes.

Again, this declaration of blackface as racist is mainly seen through an American lens.

[once]

Originally Posted by Black Star

Well...I’m Married to a Muslim Black Girl.

She laughs at all this stupid Racism bullshit. She is an educated Doctor who came here 20 years ago. Full stop with this I’m so oppressed shit. We live in a free country jack, and she knows it.... keep it real dont twisted it. She has never had it better. In Afghanistan....it was horrible. Her Dad was killed by the Taliban. Sooo shut the hell up about your white oppression shit...

A lot of immigrants who come to countries like USA and Canada have the same attitude. Yes, if you compare Canada to Afganistan it would seem that Canadian minorities have nothing to complain about.

But just because Canada is better than Afghanistan doesn't mean that Canada doesn't have issues. Look at the people on the bottom not just the success stories like your successful educated doctor wife.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

That's interesting. How did that work - were there separate numbers for the bylaw officers vs RCMP? And if so, did the locals prefer to call the bylaw officers? Or would someone just call 911 and the dispatcher would send out whoever was responsible?

From what I can remember there was usually a sticker on peoples fridge they listed emergency numbers. There was no 911. The bylaw officers would probably be dispatched for minor calls to the police number. Ambulance and fire had separate numbers as well. It wasn’t a good system.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by once

Blackface is a very specific form of racism which really cemented it's legacy in Hollywood through stereotypes.

There were actually protestations about blackface in Toronto in the mid 1800s.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by Black Star

Well...I’m Married to a Muslim Black Girl.

She laughs at all this stupid Racism bullshit. She is an educated Doctor who came here 20 years ago. Full stop with this I’m so oppressed shit. We live in a free country jack, and she knows it.... keep it real dont twisted it. She has never had it better. In Afghanistan....it was horrible. Her Dad was killed by the Taliban. Sooo shut the hell up about your white oppression shit...

I mean, you’re probably lying but my best friends wife (and good friend of mine) is an Iraqi refugee and would think everything you are saying is bullshit. So it evens out, right?

[SignalHillHiker]

There will be a black-led and organized Black Lives Matter rally at Confederation Building here today. I'm almost certain this is our first.

The organization provided a long list of rules for participants (they basically sum up to: be sober, presentable, respectful; don't wear anything offensive, including anything gang-related to anti-police/government; obey all lawful commands from authorities; disperse immediately after the rally is over). The rules seem to reflect the real danger that would exist at an American protest, as opposed to the low risk of danger here, but that's fine. The participants are going to take a knee for all of the minutes it took George Floyd to be killed. Can't imagine how long that's going to feel.

*****

But, right on schedule, the sort of local white people I mentioned before are not handling it well what they're not in charge.





I mean, a rambling, lingo-heavy conversation between white people about how to best centre black voices when it's literally their Facebook group and event you're commenting on? ...just share the status, Linda. Show up and give them the type of support they're asking for (which, just to be clear, is what I think the last commenter is trying to politely say).

One big caveat, there are local black people who disagree with the no anti-police signs/slogans - not just for the obvious reason of international solidarity, but also because they've been racially profiled locally. I'm, of course, fine with either. It is a protest, after all. I imagine they're just trying to avoid "Fuck the police!" chants and the like, because how could the protest not have an anti-police brutality tone? They literally murdered George Floyd.

*****

From this morning's jog...

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by Black Star

Well...I’m Married to a Muslim Black Girl.

She laughs at all this stupid Racism bullshit. She is an educated Doctor who came here 20 years ago. Full stop with this I’m so oppressed shit. We live in a free country jack, and she knows it.... keep it real dont twisted it. She has never had it better. In Afghanistan....it was horrible. Her Dad was killed by the Taliban. Sooo shut the hell up about your white oppression shit...

Your wife and her opinions do not represent All people with different skin pigment or all people of Islamic faith.
No one's doubting she and her family experienced awful trauma.

You just used her as a token to support your own opinions and views and don't even realize it

[MolsonExport]

Sooo shut the hell up about your white oppression shit...

you are out of line, as usual. Stay off the sauce if you are going to post on SSP.