The not so Great Racism in Canada Thread

[niwell]

Originally Posted by rousseau

It hasn't reached the point where they're pointedly asking their Facebook friends to register their support of every tenet of their ad-hoc manifesto in lieu of being cast out into the wilderness. At the same time, though, my silence is probably suspicious.

Then again, the echo chamber is so loud that they probably haven't noticed.

You should probably just mute facebook friends like that. I barely use the app anymore but don't experience anything like that, and actual activists tend not to act that way.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by esquire

Ha. I wasn't aware of this example but that type of scenario is what comes to mind when I see FTP/ACAB hashtags, or signs that read 'defund the police'. As a Winnipeg taxpayer I am none too thrilled with how much I have to pay in property taxes to the sustain the police, but even with my minimal exposure to the city's seedy underbelly I have to say that it beats the alternative. I do not think minorities would be better off in a scenario where the foxes run the henhouse.

It's a problem particular to the US where Americans spend more on policing than social programs.

https://www.gq.com/story/cops-cost-billions

How many Canadian cities spend 30% of their budget on policing like LA does? And that's compounded at the state level down their with spending on state troopers and National Guard.

For comparison, Ottawa spends 5% of their budget on police.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by dleung

Totally valid to question the intentions of people who have never in the past paid much attention to income inequality, inadequate welfare, discrimination against aboriginals, "black on black crime" and a host of other social ills, only to suddenly go "whataboutthese?" every time society shines a light on police killing/jailing black people over things other races get away with all the time.

There's Richard Spencer racist
There's MAGA racist
Then there's the "Yeah, I like Trump's, uh, economic policies, wink wink" racist
There's "hmm, maybe we should forget multiculturalism and be like the nordic/asian countries with token/non-threatening levels of diversity"
Then there's playing dumb about racism with whataboutisms because you see it as a zero sum game and need the status quo to hold onto any advantage in life.
.

You forgot:

"I can be racist against any groups I want provided that in my eyes they are powerful enough that they can take it, and besides I see myself as a minority so if they call me on it, they're the racists ha ha ha ha"

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I can absolutely tell the generational, ethnic, and urban-rural profiles on this sub. I guarantee you that most of your views would be viewed as out of touch with the mostly white twentysomething military officers I work with, who would in theory be more conservative than their peers. 3:1 Anglo-Franco split.

Correct me if I'm wrong but did you say you've been in the CAF for 20 plus years? Are you an officer or NCM? Are you in Ottawa or out in the boonies?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by someone123

It is kind of similar. The black population in the US was historically spread out on rural plantations and when they were freed they often had almost no education, no property and struggled to find good jobs, so eventually they moved to industrial cities and had to start over.

From a historical standpoint, for sure. I was thinking more of the current situation where even the remotest parts of the continental US aren't more than a couple hours' driving from the nearest city as compared to Northern reserves that may be inaccessible by road for all but a couple months of the year, and moving to the city may mean being effectively cut off from your family, friends and support networks.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Where did I say this? I have experienced plenty of prejudice as an English person in Quebec. All minor stuff, but still annoying.
.

I raise you: "I grew up as a francophone in very predominantly anglophone places outside Quebec during the first PQ/referendum era and went to school in English"

You're "it", I think.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

For comparison, Ottawa spends 5% of their budget on police.

That must be supplemented by Federal funding for big parts of the capital region. Vancouver is in the 17-18% range I believe.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I raise you: "I grew up as a francophone in very predominantly anglophone places outside Quebec during the first PQ/referendum era and went to school in English"

You're "it", I think.

You didn't answer either of my questions.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Hold on a minute: that's pretty much exactly what jhikka just said.

No. That's not what he said. But this is the issue with discussing statistical trends vs individual realities. You always get the "But it doesn't fit me...."

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

It's a problem particular to the US where Americans spend more on policing than social programs.

https://www.gq.com/story/cops-cost-billions

How many Canadian cities spend 30% of their budget on policing like LA does? And that's compounded at the state level down their with spending on state troopers and National Guard.

For comparison, Ottawa spends 5% of their budget on police.

26.6% of the civic budget in Winnipeg.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by rousseau

But I've checked out of the conversation (if I ever checked in very much) purely in the interest of self-preservation. My Facebook feed is filled with outraged family and friends (Canadians) hectoring all and sundry to "repeat after me..." about how to think about this while at the same time telling us, without irony, to "shut up and let them speak," and "if you don't support BLM then we are not friends," and remonstrating with us to "check our white privilege," etc. etc. ad nauseam. I've only been on Facebook for a couple months, but I now understand first hand what a powder keg it is. These people brook no dissent, and their voices get shriller and shriller as they agonize over how to appropriate (see what I did there?) the US situation into Canada.

Social media is the new wrinkle in all of this.

We can bandwagon onto a cause (or infiltrate it and ruin it, depending on point-of-view) quite rapidly. Our social media presence is now the image we project as people. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not - does Facebook make us more engaged, or does it distract us from our more local problems?

If these protests serve to suck the oxygen out of more pressing local problems, are we making our communities better? Maybe in Toronto, but unless Winnipeg's aboriginal community can attach itself to this, does it do the same for them?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by rousseau

It hasn't reached the point where they're pointedly asking their Facebook friends to register their support of every tenet of their ad-hoc manifesto in lieu of being cast out into the wilderness. At the same time, though, my silence is probably suspicious.

Then again, the echo chamber is so loud that they probably haven't noticed.

Who the hell still goes on Facebook regularly enough to notice the things?

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

That must be supplemented by Federal funding for big parts of the capital region. Vancouver is in the 17-18% range I believe.

Toronto's is 20%+

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/property-tax-toronto-budget-2019-1.5042301

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

No. That's not what he said. But this is the issue with discussing statistical trends vs individual realities. You always get the "But it doesn't fit me...."

TrueNorth dit que JHikka n ne lui a pas fait une pipe.

(Apologies to René Magritte.)

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

That must be supplemented by Federal funding for big parts of the capital region. Vancouver is in the 17-18% range I believe.

Still not even close to what Americans spend.

And more to the point there's a closer parity on what is spent on social and other adjacent public services (like say transit) which assist disadvantaged groups.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

Correct me if I'm wrong but did you say you've been in the CAF for 20 plus years? Are you an officer or NCM? Are you in Ottawa or out in the boonies?

Officer. 20+. Currently NCR.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I was pointing out Quebec tends to be more xenophobic, and suggesting Francophones as a possible source. Don't put things in quotes that aren't quotes.
.

So if someone says that Detroit has high crime, and that African-Americans are a possible source, you're cool with that?

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by niwell

You should probably just mute facebook friends like that. I barely use the app anymore but don't experience anything like that, and actual activists tend not to act that way.

I'm starting to do that.

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Who the hell still goes on Facebook regularly enough to notice the things?

Detached, ironic, dispassionate Generation X guy outed. I waited about fifteen years to get on Facebook. If you'll indulge me, where is most of the communication happening these days for the young kids?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Nah. More like our views aren't actually that far outside the mainstream for our peer groups. It's just jarring to you because this forum's demographics skew whiter, male, older, etc. So Warren and me stand out here....

I can absolutely tell the generational, ethnic, and urban-rural profiles on this sub. I guarantee you that most of your views would be viewed as out of touch with the mostly white twentysomething military officers I work with, who would in theory be more conservative than their peers. 3:1 Anglo-Franco split. I daresay the Francos in that group would be most shocked at your views. But you sound absolutely typical and unremarkable to me for your age. Despite all the posturing about that Quebecois uniqueness I would bet money that you're closer to the average 50 something Anglo-Ontarian than the average 30 yr old Quebecer, on most issues.

Still waiting for those insights into my soul, but just thinking that the views of my circle of friends (40-50 age group) on stuff like homosexuality, Trump, Bill 21, etc. aren't really that different from younger people. At least not here in Quebec. I have younger people around me all the time as I have teens, I have friends who have young adult children, and I am the "old guy" at work and in most of my social groups.

My exposure to people of all ages is probalby above-average for this forum.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Toronto's is 20%+

Those graphics are misleading.

Actual budget is 16.5% for all emergency services.

https://www.toronto.ca/city-government/budget-finances/city-budget/previous-budgets/2019-budget/