The not so Great Racism in Canada Thread

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Sarcasm? I was completely serious. Why do you think assisted dying has developed as and when it has? Society is setting the stage for a facilitated generational change.

"Assisted dying" is a return to the mean for humanity. It's a symbol of growing atheism IMO.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by esquire

This is true. I hate to say it, but Indigenous people in Canada have as raw a deal as anyone. I mean, as vid likes to remind us, there are many northern communities without the basic necessity of clean drinking water.

If people want to march in the streets over something that strikes way more relevant to Canada than issues related to the treatment of black citizens by various arms of the United States government.

But Stephen Colbert, CNN and the New York Times don't talk about the things happening in Northern Ontario or wherever, so as a result no one really gives it much thought. Which, I suppose, works for many as it keeps a lid on things.

I have to wonder what North American First Nations are saying among themselves in regards to the current situation.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Just because I ask the question doesn't mean I have to be satisfied with the answer.

Not everyone agrees with me but I doubt that many people here see me as a particularly obtuse, hyper-partisan poster.

Not hyper-partisan, just frustrating to engage with at times.

It's also easy to see partisanship when somebody posts a left or right wing view, and somebody else responds "but that's 10% wrong!" as if that devalues the whole thing.

See: climate change

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

It was a great article. I only take offense and the one quick lumping in of Gen-X with the boomers. Even though I don't really fall into that demo either.

On polling they are pretty evenly split. With older Gen X lining up with Boomers and younger Gen X lining up with Millennials. I see this with my own circle too.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The real question though is whether or not Canada can continue to carve out its own path in terms of societal and political norms. In fairness, I would say that historically the country has usually been able to do that, though perhaps not as seamlessly as some Canadians like to think. I am thinking here of Canadians who believe the constant intake of all things American is of little consequence on Canadians' outlook on things.

I think the future is a little cloudy in that regard... for much of recent history, from about say 1950-2000, we obviously had lots of exposure to US culture but through a Canadian filter. So Canadian TV stations, radio stations, newspapers but with a lot of US content.

With the internet, the middleman has been eliminated... as has been mentioned, there are no cancon rules on Twitter, Facebook or Google. So it's possible to live as though you are in the United States.

This is not the end of the world, it is fine if people want to gnash their teeth over Trump's latest outrage or whatever. But it is odd when US political and social issues start to take precedence over our own.

Imagine if there were huge "Remember Tiananmen Square" rallies across the country today... imagine if the local pop radio stations were posting pro-Hong Kong images to their Instagram feed... imagine that China's treatment of Uyghur Muslims was the number one front page news issue across the country today. It would probably strike people as at least somewhat odd that foreign issues were dominating the domestic political sphere that way. But you don't really get that feeling with US issues... they are so commonly adopted here that it just feels natural.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

On polling they are pretty evenly split. With older Gen X lining up with Boomers and younger Gen X lining up with Millennials. I see this with my own circle too.

I suppose I'd agree with that, but overall there is less extreme views. Good thing we have a centrist party in Canada for that.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

I have to wonder what North American First Nations are saying among themselves in regards to the current situation.

There is plenty of frustration. And personally I expect that we will have serious conflict with aboriginals in Canada, if things don't improve for them. Doesn't help that they are heavily concentrated in provinces where the political disdain for their issues is highest.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

There is plenty of frustration. And personally I expect that we will have serious conflict with aboriginals in Canada, if things don't improve for them. Doesn't help that they are heavily concentrated in provinces where the political disdain for their issues is highest.

It also doesn't help that they all have different issues and priorities. Grouping all first nations peoples together does them a disservice. I'm not trying to play down the issue at all but not all reserves lack clean water, not all reserves lack housing. There are communities in this country that are more-or-less fine on a quality of living scale. The lack of unity and similarity amongst first nations communities is why there's always a lack of cohesion and unified voice on a national scale.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

There is plenty of frustration. And personally I expect that we will have serious conflict with aboriginals in Canada, if things don't improve for them. Doesn't help that they are heavily concentrated in provinces where the political disdain for their issues is highest.

There are sizable Indigenous populations everywhere except Atlantic Canada...

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

There are sizable Indigenous populations everywhere except Atlantic Canada...

Though if you look at it in percentage terms, the indigenous population of NS and NB has more weight than it does in ON and QC.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by esquire

This is not the end of the world, it is fine if people want to gnash their teeth over Trump's latest outrage or whatever. But it is odd when US political and social issues start to take precedence over our own.

I dispute that they are "taking precedence over our own". Rather it seems reflective of, "Think globally. Act locally."

This line of thinking that only FN issues are "Canadian" is also strange. The proportion of visible minority in Canada is > 22% of the population. The proportion of First Nations is < 5% of the population. I would expect the larger group and its issues to end up getting more attention.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by esquire

There are sizable Indigenous populations everywhere except Atlantic Canada...

Originally Posted by Acajack

Though if you look at it in percentage terms, the indigenous population of NS and NB has more weight than it does in ON and QC.

As a proportion of population, the Western provinces have significant FN minorities. And 6 of 10 FN live out West.

This is also why there's less visibility on FN issues. With only 400k FN in a province of 14M, they are effectively just another (and very small) minority group. This is absolutely not the case in several other provinces.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Though if you look at it in percentage terms, the indigenous population of NS and NB has more weight than it does in ON and QC.

For NL, a lot of the population must be in Labrador.

It's surprising to me that the indigenous population in NS went up by 50% over a 5-year period. I suspect that's due to some change in what is recorded in the census rather than just growth. Per capita, BC and NS are roughly tied these days, while NL is much higher.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I dispute that they are "taking precedence over our own". Rather it seems reflective of, "Think globally. Act locally."

This line of thinking that only FN issues are "Canadian" is also strange. The proportion of visible minority in Canada is > 22% of the population. The proportion of First Nations is < 5% of the population. I would expect the larger group and its issues to end up getting more attention.

That's fair. But the challenges facing Indigenous people are severe. I live in Manitoba, and roughly 75% of prison inmates are Indigenous while making up only 15% of the population. Regardless of where one stands on Indigenous people -- whether you're more a Scheer or a Singh -- it's reasonable to infer that there are some pretty serious social problems at play.

But that said, I don't mean to make this a black people vs. Indigenous people thing. I simply pointed out how curious it is that BLM, a movement imported from the US has swept the public consciousness in Canada and resulted in people rallying to the streets while our homegrown race-relations breakdowns tend to linger in the background. It goes to Acajack's earlier point about what we consider to be truly important and how we make those determinations.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by JHikka

It also doesn't help that they all have different issues and priorities. Grouping all first nations peoples together does them a disservice. I'm not trying to play down the issue at all but not all reserves lack clean water, not all reserves lack housing. There are communities in this country that are more-or-less fine on a quality of living scale. The lack of unity and similarity amongst first nations communities is why there's always a lack of cohesion and unified voice on a national scale.

Agreed. But at the risk of generalizing, there are some broad socio-economic issues which need to be addressed. I mean it's incredible that new immigrants end up more prosperous than some FN within a few years.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

I have to wonder what North American First Nations are saying among themselves in regards to the current situation.

Many, many different things, one imagines ...

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by someone123

For NL, a lot of the population must be in Labrador.

Labrador only has a total population of 26K so some of those have to be in Newfoundland.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Doesn't help that they are heavily concentrated in provinces where the political disdain for their issues is highest.

Those two things are almost certainly related.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by esquire

That's fair. But the challenges facing Indigenous people are severe. I live in Manitoba, and roughly 75% of prison inmates are Indigenous while making up only 15% of the population. Regardless of where one stands on Indigenous people -- whether you're more a Scheer or a Singh -- it's reasonable to infer that there are some pretty serious social problems at play.

But that said, I don't mean to make this a black people vs. Indigenous people thing. I simply pointed out how curious it is that BLM, a movement imported from the US has swept the public consciousness in Canada and resulted in people rallying to the streets while our homegrown race-relations breakdowns tend to linger in the background. It goes to Acajack's earlier point about what we consider to be truly important and how we make those determinations.

How many of you have read Canadian BLM manifestos? Serious question. They aren't morons. They faced the exact same criticism early on. And then put a lot of aboriginal demands front and centre. At this point, outside the major metros, Canadian BLM has effectively teamed with Idle No More.

To be clear. I am no fan of importing these issues (or groups) from the US. I don't think we have the same issues with policing in Canada. But to argue that what is effectively an anti-racism movement (and increasingly an anti-authoritarian movement), should be dismissed because it isn't entirely locally originated and does not centre around the preferred Canadian oppressed minority is pretty sketch.

And this is not how history happens either. Imagine Egyptians looking at protests in Tunisia thinking, "Well. It's not really an Egyptian issue. So...."

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Agreed. But at the risk of generalizing, there are some broad socio-economic issues which need to be addressed. I mean it's incredible that new immigrants end up more prosperous than some FN within a few years.

If anything though this phenomenon is hard to square with the idea that Canadian society or police are pro-white and out to keep POCs down (the BLM itself uses the term POC). Canada has had many non-white immigrant groups that have come here with nothing and become very successful. If it were a highly racist and repressive society that would simply not be possible.

I point that out not because I believe nothing is wrong but that I don't think generic anti-racist campaigning is going to do much for groups like First Nations in Canada.