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  #461  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 11:41 PM
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  #462  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 11:43 PM
memememe76 memememe76 is offline
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I am not sure why the protests in Canada is reflective of Canada in any specific way. There are non-US countries around the world having their own protests. It's not just Canada.
     
     
  #463  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 11:45 PM
ReeceZ ReeceZ is offline
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Does your immediate social circles include hanging out with 18-22 year olds, though? I doubt it.

I've been fortunate to maintain many friendships over the years and like you it's fine. However, I've had the fortune (misfortune?) of going back to university again as a mature student and while any new friends or acquaintances I've met aren't like that an alarming amount of my peers both young students as well as Arts faculty were horribly regressive and confrontational about every single transgression.

I took a public policy class a few years ago and wrote a policy paper regarding TFW program abuse, absolutely nothing in the paper had anything to do with party policy, all statistics based research. The professor I had for the class was a young (mid-30s) Indo-Canadian woman who took personal offence about it because she had a relative who came to Canada through the TFW program and it was a "price worth paying"; no I am not joking, she took it personal because of a distant relative operating through the system.

The school's student association painted the sidewalk from the library to the arts building as a rainbow for LGBT+ support and after a month of thousands of people walking and biking over it the walkway got all scuffed up with skidmarks and the SA accused the school of homophobia. I'm not kidding man, it even made the local newspaper. Simple wear and tear was a perceived act of violence against sexual minorities.

I want to believe you are right, maybe where you live is still sane and I'm happy for you if it is, but the prisoners run the asylum now. I've never felt more apathetic and demoralized about the state of society than I ever thought possible. Maybe the silent majority will step up and finally put a stop to the madness but I doubt it. Shit will just accelerate beyond repair soon.
Situations like you describe abound in our society. People looking for reasons to get 'offended' over the stupidest of things. This mentality is running rampid in the western world. I know a few former wokie, SJW, PC people who walked away from others of the sort because they simply couldn't hand the insanity that was coming out of their mouths. Those left-leaning extremists literally do your head in.
     
     
  #464  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 11:48 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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Originally Posted by ReeceZ View Post
Situations like you describe abound in our society. People looking for reasons to get 'offended' over the stupidest of things. This mentality is running rampid in the western world. I know a few former wokie, SJW, PC people who walked away from others of the sort because they simply couldn't hand the insanity that was coming out of their mouths. Those left-leaning extremists literally do your head in.
Only the left leaning extremists?
     
     
  #465  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 11:51 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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Originally Posted by memememe76 View Post
I am not sure why the protests in Canada is reflective of Canada in any specific way. There are non-US countries around the world having their own protests. It's not just Canada.
The US is the global cultural leader. And with that comes imitation. Why this is surprising to some is beyond me.
     
     
  #466  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 11:52 PM
goodgrowth goodgrowth is offline
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Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
A lot of social media posting is about being see on the right side, not communicating or uncovering the truth.

I think we are seeing a "purity spiral" with the police brutality issue. There were legitimately bad events and the table stakes were to condemn them but people will keep raising the bet if there is a social payoff. It is hard to have nuanced debates in such a setting.

I have complained before but (English) Canada has little to no "defence" against American cultural spillover. We are just forced to grapple with whatever the American issue of the day is, no matter what's going on in our own country. And we do actually have some important domestic issues right now believe it or not...

I guess we are living through what the folks who came up with Canadian content rules decades ago were trying to deal with. Communicating shifted from TV and radio broadcast to the internet and now Canadians get their information mostly from American companies. The most important media companies in Canada now are Google, Facebook, and Twitter, and they are based in the US.
We also have a supposed public broadcaster who's been completely roped into American political culture.

What's the point of the CBC if they are just CNN lite?
     
     
  #467  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
Only the left leaning extremists?
Just because you leave the left-leaning extremists (who used to be your crowd), doesn't mean you automatically fall into the arms of right-leaning extremists.

I know it's hard to believe, but there is a middle, you know!
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  #468  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2020, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Just because you leave the left-leaning extremists (who used to be your crowd), doesn't mean you automatically fall into the arms of right-leaning extremists.

I know it's hard to believe, but there is a middle, you know!
Most media outlets would hate to admit it but the vast majority is in the center. They just don't get any love.
     
     
  #469  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2020, 12:22 AM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Just because you leave the left-leaning extremists (who used to be your crowd), doesn't mean you automatically fall into the arms of right-leaning extremists.

I know it's hard to believe, but there is a middle, you know!
Then somebody would just say "extremists". The extra adjective and the lack of response speaks volumes.
     
     
  #470  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2020, 12:27 AM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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Let's be clear. Some of this is not just about racism. This is now very much about a historical turn in the US. Here's a letter by Gen James Mattis, Trump's former Defence Secretary and I'd say as respected in our own military, as theirs (he's as popular over there as Hillier over here). I'd say it's historical when a former Supreme Allied Commander, and DefSec compares the President he served under to actions by the Nazis. This right here is history.

.........

**IN UNION THERE IS STRENGTH**

I have watched this week’s unfolding events, angry and appalled. The words “Equal Justice Under Law” are carved in the pediment of the United States Supreme Court. This is precisely what protesters are rightly demanding. It is a wholesome and unifying demand—one that all of us should be able to get behind. We must not be distracted by a small number of lawbreakers. The protests are defined by tens of thousands of people of conscience who are insisting that we live up to our values—our values as people and our values as a nation.

When I joined the military, some 50 years ago, I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution. Never did I dream that troops taking that same oath would be ordered under any circumstance to violate the Constitutional rights of their fellow citizens—much less to provide a bizarre photo op for the elected commander-in-chief, with military leadership standing alongside.

We must reject any thinking of our cities as a “battlespace” that our uniformed military is called upon to “dominate.” At home, we should use our military only when requested to do so, on very rare occasions, by state governors. Militarizing our response, as we witnessed in Washington, D.C., sets up a conflict—a false conflict—between the military and civilian society. It erodes the moral ground that ensures a trusted bond between men and women in uniform and the society they are sworn to protect, and of which they themselves are a part. Keeping public order rests with civilian state and local leaders who best understand their communities and are answerable to them.

James Madison wrote in Federalist 14 that “America united with a handful of troops, or without a single soldier, exhibits a more forbidding posture to foreign ambition than America disunited, with a hundred thousand veterans ready for combat.” We do not need to militarize our response to protests. We need to unite around a common purpose. And it starts by guaranteeing that all of us are equal before the law.

Instructions given by the military departments to our troops before the Normandy invasion reminded soldiers that “The Nazi slogan for destroying us…was ‘Divide and Conquer.’ Our American answer is ‘In Union there is Strength.’” We must summon that unity to surmount this crisis—confident that we are better than our politics.

Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead he tries to divide us. We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society. This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children.

We can come through this trying time stronger, and with a renewed sense of purpose and respect for one another. The pandemic has shown us that it is not only our troops who are willing to offer the ultimate sacrifice for the safety of the community. Americans in hospitals, grocery stores, post offices, and elsewhere have put their lives on the line in order to serve their fellow citizens and their country. We know that we are better than the abuse of executive authority that we witnessed in Lafayette Park. We must reject and hold accountable those in office who would make a mockery of our Constitution. At the same time, we must remember Lincoln’s “better angels,” and listen to them, as we work to unite.

Only by adopting a new path—which means, in truth, returning to the original path of our founding ideals—will we again be a country admired and respected at home and abroad.

James Mattis

Last edited by Truenorth00; Jun 4, 2020 at 12:43 AM.
     
     
  #471  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2020, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
Only the left leaning extremists?
At one point, neo-Nazi or Proud Boys or other right-wing rallies were the Loch Ness Monster or Chupacabra of Toronto and Vancouver. People would report they were going to happen but they typically did not or were a sad group of a dozen people surrounded by a much larger group of counter-demonstrators. Meanwhile BLM rallies attract thousands right now. I don't believe these groups are equivalent, but it makes sense to talk about leftist politics and reasoning when that's what's having the bigger impact on Canada's political scene.
     
     
  #472  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2020, 12:57 AM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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.... but it makes sense to talk about leftist politics and reasoning when that's what's having the bigger impact on Canada's political scene.
I can buy that Canada is more left-leaning and there are more interactions with leftists which bother ReeceZ. But that is not what he/she said.
     
     
  #473  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2020, 1:04 AM
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Nobody seems at all interested in the lives of law-abiding citizens - white, black, purple - whose lives are impacted by crime and other anti-social behaviours on a daily basis.

If I lived in one of these catastrophic neighbourhoods, I'd be begging the police to walk to beat so that my children can leave their home without fear. These are real situations that require, in my opinion, traditional policing initiatives ie walking the beat, etc.

We wring our hands over the dude playing at being a gang-banger who gets pulled over, and completely ignore the people the cops are trying to protect. Yes, it's messy. I acknowledge that. But if, for example, young purple men are committing almost all the violent crime in an area, it can't be ignored.

We need laws. Laws that are upheld. And a criminal justice system that prosecutes perpetrators of crime. In this utopia, which used to exist btw, we'd assuredly see crime rates drop. But the minute we allow SJW types to overwhelm the justice system then arrests and convictions go down, neighourhoods fall apart, and you've got anarchy. A phenomenon, incidentally, which several groups are actively seeking, by the way.

So who are we serving, exactly? Certainly not the groups we are supposedly trying to protect, that's for sure.
     
     
  #474  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2020, 1:10 AM
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The problem with the blurring of the line between the military and police is that they're fundamentally misused with very negative effects.

The United States spent a good portion of the Iraq War using their military as a police force to restore order in Iraq. The military's purpose is to destroy the enemy through the use of force, not the administration of laws. A military can fight the enemy quite effectively, but it has very limited capacity to enforce order and law on domestic citizens.

The problem with the police adopting military-style tactics is that military tactics involve the 'enemy'. When the police become the military, the people become the enemy. That's not something you want in a democratic society.

There's a damn good reason why there is distinct lines between the roles of the military and their use in free societies. One the military becomes a political entity that is unresponsive to civilian control, you're headed the way of many broken countries.
     
     
  #475  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2020, 1:28 AM
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the recent events in the US have really enlightened me to something that i had taken so for granted.. the whole concept of white privlege was a wash with me... never have I ever felt so aware of the fact that its a thing.. it exists and I have benefited from it. I am glad discussions of racism are happening even here on this forum and what is happenening in the US definitely forces us to look inwardly at ourselves and recognize that there is systematic racism in our own backyard... both with the black community and indigenous communities as well as all other visible minorities across Canada.

I have never been more ashamed to be white, than I am now and not because there is anything wrong with being white, but because my whiteness and the bubble in which I live in has caused me to inadvertently turn a blind eye to the wrongs so many across Canada experience on a daily basis. Moreover, as a gay white male, I should know better as someone from a group that have also historically experienced so much discrimination. So from here on out, i vow to do better.. be more aware and I don't think I can ever go back to being silent in the face of witnessing any social injustice.

So while we're all united here in the sense that we are all fans of skyscrapers and city scapes lets also remind ourselves of everything else that brings us together as opposed to singling out what sets us apart.
     
     
  #476  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2020, 1:30 AM
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The real area of disagreement here is to what degree this bias is something that we have to try to eliminate vs how much of it is okay and even helpful (to their job).

(In someone123's example, a police officer who's aware of the data showing that green people commit all the crimes will likely be using resources better than another one who has to respect a quota of 50% green arrests/50% blue arrests.)

Again, as I like to point out, the police have a HUGE subconscious bias against males, and also a HUGE subconscious bias against the young, while having equally huge subconscious biases in favor of females and in favor of the old.

Any intellectually honest conversation re: police profiling would include suggestions on what exactly to do about that.
Back in the day in SW MB, where there were no visible minorities and the Dakota Sioux of ND rarely crossed the border. The Queen's Cowboys knew who were the trouble makers in our RM (trouble makers as in drinking and driving, speeding and low level drug use/sales) and watched us young white males like hawks.
Looking back you'd call it profiling but we just considered the usual harassment from the cops. But the big difference is that we had zero fear of being killed by the cops and they had zero fear from us even though they knew there was a very good chance there was at least a .22 rifle behind the seat in the cab.
     
     
  #477  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2020, 1:36 AM
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There's a lot of focus here on policing as apprehending criminals. But if you want to see how insidious racism is, look at how much an organization treats disparate clients. The weak investigative effort on missing, and murdered aboriginal women.
While the police can be rightly held to task for weak investigative efforts, I give you Tamra Keepness of Regina who disappeared in 2004 and the red wall of North Central has frustrated RPS and RCMP ever since as they turned heaven and earth to find her.

http://reginapolice.ca/resources/missing-persons/tamra-jewel-keepness/
     
     
  #478  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2020, 1:45 AM
Antigonish Antigonish is offline
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I have never been more ashamed to be white
Don't be.

Being a white male in Canada who works a middle class job, who studies hard and works hard to earn himself a spot in society is not a privilege... it's the default.

If a person who isn't white plays their cards right and works hard to elevate themselves to the same level as you but still gets held down that's not you being privileged, that's them being screwed over. The point is to elevate all people to the default of a middle class white male.

People who are actually privileged are people like Justin Trudeau. Rich trust fund babies born into wealth and power. Those are the people who should be "white guilty" yet those are the people who shame you when the finger should be pointed at them.
     
     
  #479  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2020, 2:01 AM
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At one time, EVERYBODY EVERYWHERE had slaves...
     
     
  #480  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2020, 2:03 AM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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I have never been more ashamed to be white.
You shouldn't be. You can no more change the colour of your skin than the victims here. You can, however, support change. And that's all anyone can really do.

I don't buy that "check your privilege" bullshit. Anybody who says that is being a politically correct moron. Call them out.
     
     
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