The not so Great Racism in Canada Thread

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Do you think the ex-soldier becoming a cop is the problem? I think it's more like the C student bully who's life is going nowhere.

No I don't. I was pointing it out to show that the pipeline exists elsewhere, without resulting in the same violence.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I have noticed that in much of Canada, cops on patrol no longer wear anything that looks like a police uniform.

It's more like black or dark blue, "military sporty" or "sporty military" style pants and jackets, often with or without a shoulder patch with the police force crest, and a patch with the word POLICE either velcroed or sewn onto the back.

Yep. Cars are mostly black too. Militarization for sure. But it's beyond soliders, more like a "Black Ops" look.

Why can't they have distinctive light blue like they used to?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Acajack

That's different, though. I believe there might be a handful of places in Canada that have curfews for youths as well.

I would not lobby in favour of that but I don't see it as especially odious either.

Surely you can see how curfews can be used as an excuse to arrest people. They are a suspension of the 1st Amendment of the Constitution. That's not something that should be done without serious consideration.

Imagine suspending the 2nd Amendment?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by someone123

In Toronto there was the strange Sammy Yatim case in 2013. But the police officer James Forcillo went to prison for 6 years for that, and Yatim was armed. Meanwhile in the US about 1,000 people were shot and killed by police officers just in 2019.

Just want to point out, Forcillo did only 2 years before parole. And he was busted for perjury and violating bail while awaiting trial. He was also upset that minimum sentencing laws applied to him.

Better than the US. But not by much. Mostly, we can be grateful that no other police department will hire him. In the US, there are so many cops who get fired and then hired at another PD, that there's a term for it: gypsy cops.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Surely you can see how curfews can be used as an excuse to arrest people. They are a suspension of the 1st Amendment of the Constitution. That's not something that should be done without serious consideration.

Curfews are also used to deligitimize a cause. See they aren't protestors anymore. Their criminals breaking curfew. So we need to worry about that, than the underlying issue which caused the protests.

See Martin Luther King's Letter from the Birmingham Jail. I posted a YouTube link to the read of it. MLK specifically called out white moderates who he said preferred order to justice. Sounds like quite a few people today.

I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Curfews are also used to deligitimize a cause. See they aren't protestors anymore. Their criminals breaking curfew. So we need to worry about that, than the underlying issue which caused the protests.

See Martin Luther King's Letter from the Birmingham Jail. I posted a YouTube link to the read of it. MLK specifically called out white moderates who he said preferred order to justice. Sounds like quite a few people today.

Well said by MLK as usual.

Worth remembering he was hated by large (white) portions of white America at the time.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Yep. Cars are mostly black too. Militarization for sure. But it's beyond soliders, more like a "Black Ops" look.

Why can't they have distinctive light blue like they used to?

I'll defend them here. Part of it is comfort and ergonomics. Military uniforms are designed to be comfortable and provide easy access to tools. Can also be cheaper since supply chains already exist.

I'm okay with the style. Maybe change the colours to make the public feel more comfortable. The bigger issue is militarization through high end military gear and aggressive training. Not their uniforms.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Yep. Cars are mostly black too. Militarization for sure. But it's beyond soliders, more like a "Black Ops" look.

Why can't they have distinctive light blue like they used to?

Black Ops is a good descriptor.

I can see TrueNorth's point about them being more comfortable and functional.

They are more intimidating for (much of) the public though.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Curfews are also used to deligitimize a cause. See they aren't protestors anymore. Their criminals breaking curfew. So we need to worry about that, than the underlying issue which caused the protests.
.

I have a hard time seeing as overkill the curfews in force right now in American cities that have been ransacked over the past week.

[Antigonish]

The biggest issue I've noticed especially since COVID and now these race riots is how alarming it is that a lot of young people (and old too!) can't seem to be able to analyze just how damaging their lack of foresight is. Its as if an alarming number of people are robots devoid of critical thinking.

Then it dawned on me that the acceleration of technology and social media has quite clearly warped the human evolution of fear and how it influences our decision-making.

Throughout history the fear of physical violence was what controlled our decision making. Will this buffalo trample me to death as I try to spear it? Is this invading army benevolent to my people and only hostile to my government/monarchy; is it too late to fight when I find out the truth? Will this person who's acting belligerent outside this pub beat me senseless if I tell them to shut up? It goes on and on, its how human beings survive and how we know when to pick and choose our battles in the struggle of building up a society that ensures better safety and access to resources.

All of that seems to go out the window now. I see an alarming amount of young people who don't have their brains wired because they've lived in a safe coddled environment that isn't natural; they've never even played contact sports or got in a little scrap with another kid in the school yard in middle school. Their evolutionary fear instincts are completely warped and thus make them incredibly easy to become victims without seeing the danger staring right at them. This evolutionary fear has been warped from physical violence to the fear of being socially ostracized - THAT is their version of life or death. Its fucking horrifying to witness in real time.

The amount of examples I've seen of young white men/women who parrot social media and corporate media agendas for fear that not like/sharing/hashtaging with kill their relationships with their classmates, colleagues, or neighbours is insane. I've seen examples of the typical scrawny white college guy wearing flannel sharing all the agendas on social media then mosey on down to A RACE RIOT filming shit on their cell phones only to get their skulls crushed in by a skateboard and some bricks. Absolutely no neurological sense of physical fear for what they perpetuate or the riotous violence they unironically advocate for themselves. It's madness.

You want to make a difference? Get involved in local politics. If you want to help disadvantaged black people donate to HSBs and provide funds for black people to get involved in law societies. But don't blindly follow slacktivism that calls for violence against other people or destruction of our communities. What the hell is wrong with these people?

They are robots. They cannot think. They are the same people who've been "snitching" on couples that walk their dogs together during lockdown. They appeal to authority without even realizing the damage they cause.

I have no hope for civilization in our very near future.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Unfortunately for those who share that view, the solution when cities are being set on fire, vandalized and looted cannot be anything but "more" policing.

It can and has to be done better, and more respectfully, but it won't be less in people's faces.

All the people saying "BAN THE POLICE" sound like teenagers singing along with Alice Cooper: SCHOOL'S! OUT! FOR! EVER!

Ain't gonna happen. No matter what.

The alternative is don't impose a curfew. If protesters want to stand in the street protesting until 3 in the morning let them and when they get tired they will go home.

Instead by creating a curfew the police now have a reason to "clear the streets". The protestors now have a reason to be there at 11:00 pm (basically to have a confrontation with the police).

I am not advocating the police let people riot. Far from it, they should go after the ones breaking windows and taking good. They should have the resources to do that if they just leave the peaceful protesters alone.

[suburbanite]

This video is making the rounds online right now.

• Video Link

There isn't enough background to know how and why this escalated, but it's a 16-year old kid getting taken down. Do we have a problem with police training if an adult male officer feels he can't control a 16-year old (who already has one arm restrained by a female officer) without punching him on the ground?

Apparently the kid's mom called the police because she was worried he hadn't been home. They then claimed they had reason to believe he may have had a knife?? I guess technically, anyone could have a knife on them, we all have kitchens. Be careful out there everyone, never know who's packing that culinary hardware.

The best part is the random cop who comes out of nowhere to arrest the kid for saying "what the fuck." the video uploader claims the camera operator was white. He's yelling "this is bullshit" and is left untouched.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Black Ops is a good descriptor.

I can see TrueNorth's point about them being more comfortable and functional.

They are more intimidating for (much of) the public though.

From what I can see googling 'Winnipeg police uniform' not much has changed since I was a kid except that body armour seems to be a fairly standard part of the kit. Which is 100% understandable. Beyond that it looks like more or less the same stuff except a little bit darker... can't tell if the shirts are black or a very dark navy blue. Beyond that they seem to have adopted some kind of cargo pants over the years.

Personally from a practicality point of view I'd appreciate the darker shirts as they'd be less likely to show dirt or stains.

That said, there are specialized units that look more militarized and video game-ish. Not to mention the infamous police tank that, in an example of splitting hairs, the police keep reminding us is not really a tank. But those are not what people typically see and encounter on the streets on a daily basis. I'd imagine it's similar in most Canadian cities.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Black Ops is a good descriptor.

I can see TrueNorth's point about them being more comfortable and functional.

They are more intimidating for (much of) the public though.

Yep, intimidation is key. Same goes for helmets, dark glasses, etc. The friendliness is there in pictures, not in reality.

I see a ton of cops in Vancouver (live and work near a big police station), they never seem to be smiling. The VPD has a pretty good reputation overall, and I'm white.

I don't get the same vibe at all from other first responders (fire and EMT). Ditto their clothing.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by suburbanite

This video is making the rounds online right now.

• Video Link

There isn't enough background to know how and why this escalated, but it's a 16-year old kid getting taken down. Do we have a problem with police training if an adult male officer feels he can't control a 16-year old (who already has one arm restrained by a female officer) without punching him on the ground?

Apparently the kid's mom called the police because she was worried he hadn't been home. They then claimed they had reason to believe he may have had a knife?? I guess technically, anyone could have a knife on them, we all have kitchens. Be careful out there everyone, never know who's packing that culinary hardware.

The best part is the random cop who comes out of nowhere to arrest the kid for saying "what the fuck." the video uploader claims the camera operator was white. He's yelling "this is bullshit" and is left untouched.

That's from a year ago, though.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by Antigonish

The biggest issue I've noticed especially since COVID and now these race riots is how alarming it is that a lot of young people (and old too!) can't seem to be able to analyze just how damaging their lack of foresight is. Its as if an alarming number of people are robots devoid of critical thinking.

Not a race riot.

[SignalHillHiker]

I'll never find it again, unfortunately, but some missus tweeted, paraphrased:

Instead of thinking, "It's a tragedy that black people have been needlessly killed by the police, but we can't allow this rioting to continue."

Try saying, "It's a tragedy that people are rioting, but we can't allow police to keep needlessly killing black people."

Love that.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Antigonish

The biggest issue I've noticed especially since COVID and now these race riots is how alarming it is that a lot of young people (and old too!) can't seem to be able to analyze just how damaging their lack of foresight is. Its as if an alarming number of people are robots devoid of critical thinking.

Then it dawned on me that the acceleration of technology and social media has quite clearly warped the human evolution of fear and how it influences our decision-making.

...

All of that seems to go out the window now. I see an alarming amount of young people who don't have their brains wired because they've lived in a safe coddled environment that isn't natural; they've never even played contact sports or got in a little scrap with another kid in the school yard in middle school. Their evolutionary fear instincts are completely warped and thus make them incredibly easy to become victims without seeing the danger staring right at them. This evolutionary fear has been warped from physical violence to the fear of being socially ostracized - THAT is their version of life or death. Its fucking horrifying to witness in real time.

The amount of examples I've seen of young white men/women who parrot social media and corporate media agendas for fear that not like/sharing/hashtaging with kill their relationships with their classmates, colleagues, or neighbours is insane. I've seen examples of the typical scrawny white college guy wearing flannel sharing all the agendas on social media then mosey on down to A RACE RIOT filming shit on their cell phones only to get their skulls crushed in by a skateboard and some bricks. Absolutely no neurological sense of physical fear for what they perpetuate or the riotous violence they unironically advocate for themselves. It's madness.

...

They are robots. They cannot think. They are the same people who've been "snitching" on couples that walk their dogs together during lockdown. They appeal to authority without even realizing the damage they cause.

I have no hope for civilization in our very near future.

You sound like every old person lamenting the decline of youth ever.

Aristotle:

They [Young People] have exalted notions, because they have not been humbled by life or learned its necessary limitations; moreover, their hopeful disposition makes them think themselves equal to great things -- and that means having exalted notions. They would always rather do noble deeds than useful ones: Their lives are regulated more by moral feeling than by reasoning -- all their mistakes are in the direction of doing things excessively and vehemently. They overdo everything -- they love too much, hate too much, and the same with everything else.

Socrates:

The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I'll never find it again, unfortunately, but some missus tweeted, paraphrased:

Instead of thinking, "It's a tragedy that black people have been needlessly killed by the police, but we can't allow this rioting to continue."

Try saying, "It's a tragedy that people are rioting, but we can't allow police to keep needlessly killing black people."

Love that.

This.

But you have to understand that they who think the riots are the bigger problem almost always have an agenda.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Antigonish

The biggest issue I've noticed especially since COVID and now these race riots is how alarming it is that a lot of young people (and old too!) can't seem to be able to analyze just how damaging their lack of foresight is. Its as if an alarming number of people are robots devoid of critical thinking.

These aren't race riots. Don't even know where to start with the rest of your post unfortunately.

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

But you have to understand that they who think the riots are the bigger problem almost always have an agenda.

Always get a kick out of people who are seemingly more concerned about the damage to private property than the killing of other people by police forces.