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  #18501  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 1:28 AM
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Originally Posted by jollyburger View Post
I thought that was actually 450 Pacific. I could have sworn there was an address sign there for years.

Kind of a joke though. A failure of policy? Concord loophole?
     
     
  #18502  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 2:08 AM
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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
I thought that was actually 450 Pacific. I could have sworn there was an address sign there for years.

Kind of a joke though. A failure of policy? Concord loophole?
It could be characterized as a victim of changing circumstances, and a funding stalemate for decades. These sites, and a couple of others, were the 20% sites for non-market housing. The assumption back in the mists of time when the initial Concord / False Creek North Plan was drawn up (while you were still in school, and some posters here were still a parental aspiration), was that the Feds and Province would fund construction of non-market units on land that Concord would sell to the City at a reduced value, as development proceeded. That worked for a while; there were non-market units built in the Yaletown phases back in the early 90s, and a co-op by Cambie Bridge in 1999, for example. Then the Feds stopped funding housing, and the Province stopped funding new-build except for a few specific target groups, so the City had the right to buy the land, but no access to funds to get any non-market housing built.

They sold some site development rights back to Concord (like Cosmo on W Georgia) in exchange for potential purchase of 1050 Expo and two other sites, subject to funding from the Province. There was a design; and approved building permit even, and the Province never made that funding available, so that site still sits undeveloped. 990 Beatty and 900 Cooperage are similar sites near Cambie Bridge, in limbo for many years.

1502 Granville is near the waterfront by Granville bridge, in front of 601 Beach. 450 Pacific and 431 Beach are nearby, in between the market towers. You'll recall that Concord were very unhappy with how the City bought 601 Beach from them, and instead of just building a modest non-market building, proposed to sell the site off to a rival developer for a big tower that paid for the non-market units. Despite Concord's court case, that project was approved. That might be a factor in why the remaining sites are still sitting undeveloped, (as well as the need for funding) and why Concord aren't rushing to submit their NEFC scheme (especially as they lost their court case with the Plaza of Nation owners as well).

There might be deal being worked out, or the whole thing might be sitting, with neither the City or Concord talking. We wouldn't know until a deal is worked out and signed, because usually these sensitive financial agreements are 'in camera', for obvious reasons. The announcement in 2018 was unusual, as it wasn't really a done deal, but in hindsight a kind of 'look, we are still delivering' move by Vision, presumably to try to retain some role on Council. We know how that turned out.

One day those six sites (and some at NEFC) will get developed, and perhaps some will deliver a fair amount of non-market housing as was originally intended. It might not be as much as was expected, but politics and finances changed the ability to deliver the intentions decades ago.
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  #18503  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 2:40 AM
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^^ You mean a City that wasted and is still wasting its potential and resources to reap all the wealth it could get to be able to develop social housing for its residents. Not surprising with all of CoV's business-busting policies, including rezoning restrictions, Viewcones, etc. Once you are able to connect the dots of everything that have transpired, you won't be surprised at all the failures that this City is currently facing.
     
     
  #18504  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 4:44 AM
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I'm amazed that old shack hasn't been used in a variety of films.
     
     
  #18505  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 4:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Vin View Post
^^ You mean a City that wasted and is still wasting its potential and resources to reap all the wealth it could get to be able to develop social housing for its residents. Not surprising with all of CoV's business-busting policies, including rezoning restrictions, Viewcones, etc. Once you are able to connect the dots of everything that have transpired, you won't be surprised at all the failures that this City is currently facing.
The City isn't supposed to be the level of government that delivers affordable housing. It's supposed to be a provincial and federal level of responsibility. By default, because those levels of government withdrew from funding projects for many years, some municipalities, including Vancouver, stepped in and tried to do what they could to build more, or leverage social housing like they have in the West End or the DTES for example. Others like Burnaby, until the relatively recent change of control of the Council, were unwilling to create or enable non-market (or even market rental) housing. That explains why Burnaby has cash in the bank, and a net loss of rental units.
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  #18506  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 4:56 AM
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What a kind way to make your point. Such generosity of spirit towards your weakest of fellows.
Nah. All those punks can always move back in their mother's basement whenever they are done rebelling against the man.
     
     
  #18507  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 9:32 AM
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Nah. All those punks can always move back in their mother's basement whenever they are done rebelling against the man.
Wow. Double down on the ignorance. What now?
     
     
  #18508  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 9:35 AM
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I'm sure that Klazu has a really nice zoom lens to look down on those living on the streets from all the way up in whatever penthouse he's living in this year.
     
     
  #18509  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 9:43 AM
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Originally Posted by GeeCee View Post
I'm sure that Klazu has a really nice zoom lens to look down on those living on the streets from all the way up in whatever penthouse he's living in this year.
Maybe. But from mine (@ 37 floors) people still look like people. Maybe he should use a telephoto lens, or better, stick to picture taking and leave the words to subtler minds.

I'm so past being tired of these useless aggressive attitudes and arguments that have been around for hundreds of years without ever contributing to solutions.
     
     
  #18510  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 9:48 AM
red-paladin red-paladin is offline
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Let's get back to the top of the thread please.
     
     
  #18511  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 4:16 PM
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I’m sure he is some white privileged guy who contributes to the wealth divide.
     
     
  #18512  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 4:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Changing City View Post
It could be characterized as a victim of changing circumstances, and a funding stalemate for decades. These sites, and a couple of others, were the 20% sites for non-market housing. The assumption back in the mists of time when the initial Concord / False Creek North Plan was drawn up (while you were still in school, and some posters here were still a parental aspiration), was that the Feds and Province would fund construction of non-market units on land that Concord would sell to the City at a reduced value, as development proceeded. That worked for a while; there were non-market units built in the Yaletown phases back in the early 90s, and a co-op by Cambie Bridge in 1999, for example. Then the Feds stopped funding housing, and the Province stopped funding new-build except for a few specific target groups, so the City had the right to buy the land, but no access to funds to get any non-market housing built.

One day those six sites (and some at NEFC) will get developed, and perhaps some will deliver a fair amount of non-market housing as was originally intended. It might not be as much as was expected, but politics and finances changed the ability to deliver the intentions decades ago.
Thanks for all of the detail, the history certainly is murky and I do know there were some cost sharing arrangements with other levels of government. I suspect if it was only the Province on the other end we may have seen some action with this NDP government.

If you are keeping tracking of my birthday so carefully I expect a present.
     
     
  #18513  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 6:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Changing City View Post
The City isn't supposed to be the level of government that delivers affordable housing. It's supposed to be a provincial and federal level of responsibility. By default, because those levels of government withdrew from funding projects for many years, some municipalities, including Vancouver, stepped in and tried to do what they could to build more, or leverage social housing like they have in the West End or the DTES for example. Others like Burnaby, until the relatively recent change of control of the Council, were unwilling to create or enable non-market (or even market rental) housing. That explains why Burnaby has cash in the bank, and a net loss of rental units.
Who dictates that a City isn't supposed to deliver affordable housing? Why not if it has the capability?

If they can retain investors to build larger developments in this City, the huge amounts of CAC's would have been able to cover a lot of the affordable rental buildings on City lots a long time ago.

Burnaby is catching up on creating building housing stocks for the common folks, and these units would one day become affordable housing. At least the City has cash in the bank, but Vancouver is essentially insolvent.

Downtown Vancouver has City-owned lots that the City can do so much about, but unfortunately these are wasted lots in prime areas, rotting away in perpetuity. Double standards that the City demands that private owners turn their lots into community parks, whereas theirs are more reminiscent of a post-apocalyptic landscape.
     
     
  #18514  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 7:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Vancouver_Highrise View Post
I’m sure he is some white privileged guy who contributes to the wealth divide.
Oh god give me a break
     
     
  #18515  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 8:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Vin View Post

Downtown Vancouver has City-owned lots that the City can do so much about, but unfortunately these are wasted lots in prime areas, rotting away in perpetuity. Double standards that the City demands that private owners turn their lots into community parks, whereas theirs are more reminiscent of a post-apocalyptic landscape.
I think these are still privately owned, for now. They certainly have been for the past 30+ years. Can you point to where the City demands that private owners turn their lots into community parks? I thought it was a tax dodge by the owners so they didn't have to pay the City so much in property tax, but if you know different, I'm sure you can provide a link.
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Last edited by Changing City; Jun 3, 2020 at 8:56 PM.
     
     
  #18516  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 8:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Changing City View Post
I think these are still privately owned, for now. They certainly have been for the past 30+ years. Can you point to where the City demands that private owners turn their lots into community parks? I thought it was a tax dodge by the owners so they didn't have to pay the City so much in property tax, but if you know different, I'm sure you can provide a link.
The shack lot is 99% such not City property. North of Pacific is City owned.
     
     
  #18517  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 8:36 PM
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I really can't place any vacant City-owned property on the peninsula either. The parking lot next to Queen E. is the only one that isn't roadway.
     
     
  #18518  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 9:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Changing City View Post
I think these are still privately owned, for now. They certainly have been for the past 30+ years. Can you point to where the City demands that private owners turn their lots into community parks? I thought it was a tax dodge by the owners so they didn't have to pay the City so much in property tax, but if you know different, I'm sure you can provide a link.
Tax on an empty lot is like a hefty fine. The City should lead by example on lots they are responsible for, particularly downtown.
     
     
  #18519  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 9:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Vin View Post
Tax on an empty lot is like a hefty fine. The City should lead by example on lots they are responsible for, particularly downtown.
Where are there vacant lots owned by the City in the Downtown peninsula?

The only one Gen Why can think of is Larwell, across from the QE Theatre where the Art Gallery might build. For now it's partly used as a temporary housing site, and a bus parking area. What better example do you want them to set?
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  #18520  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 10:53 PM
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Any vacant City property would be pounced on by EasyPark for temporary parking
- like the park site at Smithe & Richards - unless used for City works or staff / police parking, etc.
     
     
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