The not so Great Racism in Canada Thread

[Edwara19]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I once met a guy at a bar here, an acquaintance's boyfriend. I asked where he was from because he was clearly a visible minority. He said whichever town in Newfoundland it was, and I asked the question a different way probably four times before he was visibly just done with the conversation and me and I had no idea what I'd done wrong. I definitely know now. That's one of those cringe memories that wakes me up just before I fall asleep sometimes.

I'm a black Canadian and none of what you said would have offended me. Growing up in the GTA almost every minority I would interact with was an immigrant or a first-gen Canadian so they knew I was just asking out of curiosity. When someone asks me where I'm from, I say I'm from the GTA but of Caribbean heritage. Next time just ask "what's your background." I personally like it when people ask me, it shows that they are interested in knowing more about me.

[Edwara19]

As a Jamaican-Canadian, I appreciate how most people here acknowledge that anti-black racism is still present in our society and within police forces across the country.

I do feel like I need to say that one thing that really bothers me is my community's unwillingness to address our own issues - issues that only we can solve.

While racial profiling and racism are problems that affect youth in our community, single-parent households are much more damaging to a child's development. I think StatsCan said somewhere between 25-30% of black Canadian children are growing up in single-parent households. The absence of father figures is wreaking havoc on our youth. As a result, young boys lack the stability and discipline that is required during their adolescence. While their mom's work to put food on the table, the kids are at home without supervision and eventually get involved in gangs. This is just one issue that our community needs to address. There are areas where society and the government have and continue to fail the black community, but the breakdown of the black family unit is often of our own doing. And you will see that in different black cultures (Nigerians), there is often both parents present, and an emphasis is always placed on education. The same can not always be said of Caribbean cultures in the GTA.

We might not be able to change the police's perceptions of us, or even reduce racial bias, however, by having an intact family unit, our children will at least get the stability that's needed and ultimately the education that's required to be successful in this country. Although even with a similar education, black Canadians still make significantly less than their white counterparts...but that's for another discussion.

[ReeceZ]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Who's outraged here? The only outraged posts seem to be yours whinging that people are paying attention to the issue of anti-black racism and outrage that aboriginals and Indians aren't being blamed for slavery.

Or then there was your outrage about Chinese people and their "disgusting" habits, outrage about anything US-related, outrage at Trudeau, etc. I dunno, I mean you seem like a pretty outraged guy.

Haha, oooooooo I have a monkeyman stalker! I'm flattered

Cheers mate. Glad you have no life that you have the time to search my posts. Classic no-life internet geek. And yeah, the world is pretty pissed at China, so you will be hearing more and more anger towards them and their unhygienic cultural practices, so prepare thyself. And yes, their cultural practices such as wet markets are disgusting to many. But you go ahead and keep being offended, as you sad-sack SJW snowflakes are.

[Antigonish]

Originally Posted by Edwara19

I'm a black Canadian and none of what you said would have offended me. Growing up in the GTA almost every minority I would interact with was an immigrant or a first-gen Canadian so they knew I was just asking out of curiosity. When someone asks me where I'm from, I say I'm from the GTA but of Caribbean heritage. Next time just ask "what's your background." I personally like it when people ask me, it shows that they are interested in knowing more about me.

I grew up in a small rural university town that also functions as a regional service center. It's also about 98% lily white. Growing up if a family that moved there were visible minorities (Indian, Asian, African, etc) the assumption from everyone else wasn't "oh god... the immigrants are moving in, it was "oh let me guess your mom is a university professor and your dad is a surgeon at the hospital, yeah?"

People weren't moving there for the gift shops and alcoholism... that was obvious to the rest of us.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by ReeceZ

Haha, oooooooo I have a monkeyman stalker! I'm flattered

Cheers mate. Glad you have no life that you have the time to search my posts. Classic no-life internet geek. And yeah, the world is pretty pissed at China, so you will be hearing more and more anger towards them and their unhygienic cultural practices, so prepare thyself. And yes, their cultural practices such as wet markets are disgusting to many. But you go ahead and keep being offended, as you sad-sack SJW snowflakes are.

Didn't even have to search - I'm clearly not the first person to have taken notice of your posting history: https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=242653

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

As a POC...

Originally Posted by Edwara19

I'm a black Canadian...

Off topic, but it's kinda cool how diverse SSP seems to be, what with people's ethnic identities coming out of the woodwork now and then. At the same time, the anonymous and text-based nature of the forum seems to suggest that our discussions are taking place in a rather idealized context where skin colour and other indelible distinguishing physical features don't matter whatsoever.

We're typing stuff and we're only getting judged by the contents of our characters.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Antigonish

I grew up in a small rural university town that also functions as a regional service center. It's also about 98% lily white. Growing up if a family that moved there were visible minorities (Indian, Asian, African, etc) the assumption from everyone else wasn't "oh god... the immigrants are moving in, it was "oh let me guess your mom is a university professor and your dad is a surgeon at the hospital, yeah?"

People weren't moving there for the gift shops and alcoholism... that was obvious to the rest of us.

I grew up in East Vancouver. In high school, there was no ethnic majority. East Vancouver went through waves of immigration. Those who were of British ancestry were a minority. A good number from Southern Europe (Italian and Portuguese etc.) large number of people from various Asian backgrounds and a number from India and other south east Asian countries and some from first Nations Communities. There were very few people who were Black. This was a typical middle class neighborhood. There were some other communities in the city that were more affluent and more homogeneous.

I have lived in smaller university or research oriented towns and the assumption was always if looked like you were a new immigrant the assumption was someone in the family had a faculty appointment.

[CityTech]

Originally Posted by Edwara19

As a Jamaican-Canadian, I appreciate how most people here acknowledge that anti-black racism is still present in our society and within police forces across the country.

I do feel like I need to say that one thing that really bothers me is my community's unwillingness to address our own issues - issues that only we can solve.

While racial profiling and racism are problems that affect youth in our community, single-parent households are much more damaging to a child's development. I think StatsCan said somewhere between 25-30% of black Canadian children are growing up in single-parent households. The absence of father figures is wreaking havoc on our youth. As a result, young boys lack the stability and discipline that is required during their adolescence. While their mom's work to put food on the table, the kids are at home without supervision and eventually get involved in gangs. This is just one issue that our community needs to address. There are areas where society and the government have and continue to fail the black community, but the breakdown of the black family unit is often of our own doing. And you will see that in different black cultures (Nigerians), there is often both parents present, and an emphasis is always placed on education. The same can not always be said of Caribbean cultures in the GTA.

We might not be able to change the police's perceptions of us, or even reduce racial bias, however, by having an intact family unit, our children will at least get the stability that's needed and ultimately the education that's required to be successful in this country. Although even with a similar education, black Canadians still make significantly less than their white counterparts...but that's for another discussion.

It would be interesting to get some input from Nigerian Canadians on this topic. There's a sizeable Nigerian community in Ottawa and they disproportionately tend to be the sort of very ambitious/driven immigrants. You're already starting to see members of this community become doctors, lawyers, etc. If get the sense they'll be a very upper-middle class demographic in 30 years (kind of like Ashkenazi Jews). I imagine this comes from the immigration system's general bias for educated people. But I imagine that despite all this they probably face quite a bit of anti-black racism.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Didn't even have to search - I'm clearly not the first person to have taken notice of your posting history: https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=242653

You're actually bragging about how similar to misher you're being? That isn't a positive trait in my book...

(Also, as a general rule, any forumer whose name is now in red is not anyone you'd want to emulate.)

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

"So when did you move to Canada?" Or worse, "Where are you really from?"

Since you arrived to Canada when you were ~12 years old IIRC, there is actually one true answer to that question. Which means it's probably not such a dumb one.

Knowing how sensitive the Anglosphere is, it took me a little while to ask a question I really wanted to ask - to one of my best employees and now my right hand for this project - which is "where are you (really) from?", but I of course used different words. I was really intrigued by his very religious first name and strange family name (combined with brown skin and a bit of an accent). Turned out, a Christian from India.

About two thirds of our Van workforce is of South Asian ethnicity and I'd say 30%-40% are Singhs. Nearly all the ones who are students are studying "business management". There was a new guy the other day that I hadn't yet seen and I asked if his name was Singh and he was studying business management and the answer was yes on both counts. (Hilarity ensued.)

I'm really impressed with the Indians we have here so far. (It's an immigrant group we don't have exposure to back home in Quebec.) Very high quality people in general. Though I just learned some are homophobic

[wave46]

Originally Posted by rousseau

We're typing stuff and we're only getting judged by the contents of our characters.

I groaned when I read this pun.

You're quite proud of it, aren't you?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lio45

Since you arrived to Canada when you were ~12 years old IIRC, there is actually one true answer to that question. Which means it's probably not such a dumb one.

My background is similar to your right hand man. Never really grew up in India though.

But more to the point, if you met me, the lack of accent would not give me away as an immigrant. Which is why I've never had that question in Canada. But will get it from Americans and especially Europeans often. The implication being that all non-whites must be immigrants. I've even had Europeans tell me, "But you're not REALLY Canadian." Apparently, spending 3/4s of my life in the country and half of it in the service of it, still isn't enough to make me Canadian in their eyes.

[Proof Sheet]

Originally Posted by Edwara19

As a Jamaican-Canadian, I appreciate how most people here acknowledge that anti-black racism is still present in our society and within police forces across the country.

I do feel like I need to say that one thing that really bothers me is my community's unwillingness to address our own issues - issues that only we can solve.

While racial profiling and racism are problems that affect youth in our community, single-parent households are much more damaging to a child's development. I think StatsCan said somewhere between 25-30% of black Canadian children are growing up in single-parent households. The absence of father figures is wreaking havoc on our youth. As a result, young boys lack the stability and discipline that is required during their adolescence. While their mom's work to put food on the table, the kids are at home without supervision and eventually get involved in gangs. This is just one issue that our community needs to address. There are areas where society and the government have and continue to fail the black community, but the breakdown of the black family unit is often of our own doing. And you will see that in different black cultures (Nigerians), there is often both parents present, and an emphasis is always placed on education. The same can not always be said of Caribbean cultures in the GTA.

We might not be able to change the police's perceptions of us, or even reduce racial bias, however, by having an intact family unit, our children will at least get the stability that's needed and ultimately the education that's required to be successful in this country. Although even with a similar education, black Canadians still make significantly less than their white counterparts...but that's for another discussion.

Well said on your points in this post and the one before it.

[Proof Sheet]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

My background is similar to your right hand man. Never really grew up in India though.

But more to the point, if you met me, the lack of accent would not give me away as an immigrant. Which is why I've never had that question in Canada. But will get it from Americans and especially Europeans often. The implication being that all non-whites must be immigrants. I've even had Europeans tell me, "But you're not REALLY Canadian." Apparently, spending 3/4s of my life in the country and half of it in the service of it, still isn't enough to make me Canadian in their eyes.

I've been in groups of people whose background has been rooted in Canada for multiple generations etc and some of the racist statements that come out of their mouths are unbelievable. Usually saying that all 'immigrants should go back where they came from' 'stealing our jobs etc'..you know the drill.

When they say all immigrants should go back where they came from I usually pipe up and say I'm an immigrant myself (from the UK moved here with family at an age where I lost the accent basically by about the age of 15 but in a few words people still notice it)..The general response is 'yeah,but you're like one of us...you don't seem like an immigrant'.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Off topic, but it's kinda cool how diverse SSP seems to be, what with people's ethnic identities coming out of the woodwork now and then. At the same time, the anonymous and text-based nature of the forum seems to suggest that our discussions are taking place in a rather idealized context where skin colour and other indelible distinguishing physical features don't matter whatsoever.

We're typing stuff and we're only getting judged by the contents of our characters.

Surely the beauty of the on-line world is that you can be whomever you want to be.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Proof Sheet

I've been in groups of people whose background has been rooted in Canada for multiple generations etc and some of the racist statements that come out of their mouths are unbelievable. Usually saying that all 'immigrants should go back where they came from' 'stealing our jobs etc'..you know the drill.

When they say all immigrants should go back where they came from I usually pipe up and say I'm an immigrant myself (from the UK moved here with family at an age where I lost the accent basically by about the age of 15 but in a few words people still notice it)..The general response is 'yeah,but you're like one of us...you don't seem like an immigrant'.

I know that exists to a significant degree but my impression is that it's very confined to blue collar and lower class circles.

My inner entourage is very predominantly white collar Québécois and to be perfectly honest I never hear comments like that. Quebec being Quebec there is less of the Canadian Koolaid Immigrant Love-In here like you get in similar demographics in, say, Toronto. Or even Ottawa. People do express views about immigrants making an effort to fit in (or not), about how we should be (more, perhaps) selective about who we let in, and about behaviour in general, but in terms of stealing jobs or even going back where they came from... that's not something I hear.

As I said, it's definitely out there I know but even the people who have those views keep them to themselves around people like me. And probably only discuss them among the like-minded.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Proof Sheet

When they say all immigrants should go back where they came from I usually pipe up and say I'm an immigrant myself (from the UK moved here with family at an age where I lost the accent basically by about the age of 15 but in a few words people still notice it)..The general response is 'yeah,but you're like one of us...you don't seem like an immigrant'.

And this is the difference. There's a good chunk of the world that will never see me or my kids as Canadian. Ever. But a dude who moved from France, Sweden, Germany or the UK will be Canadian to them the minute they lost the accent. Sometimes that is not necessary.....

The beauty of the New World is that, for the most part, this isn't true . And hopefully, it stays that way with Canada in particular.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Edwara19

I'm a black Canadian and none of what you said would have offended me. Growing up in the GTA almost every minority I would interact with was an immigrant or a first-gen Canadian so they knew I was just asking out of curiosity. When someone asks me where I'm from, I say I'm from the GTA but of Caribbean heritage. Next time just ask "what's your background." I personally like it when people ask me, it shows that they are interested in knowing more about me.

Agreed. I have attempted to overcome my anglo-Canadian tendency to resist asking about where people are from mainly because I am very fascinated to hear about their backgrounds, their families and their lives in the old country, in a true SSP forum, city nerd kind of way. That said, I tend to limit it to cases where people have accents and it's totally obvious they aren't from here.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by esquire

Agreed. I have attempted to overcome my anglo-Canadian tendency to resist asking about where people are from mainly because I am very fascinated to hear about their backgrounds, their families and their lives in the old country, in a true SSP forum, city nerd kind of way. That said, I tend to limit it to cases where people have accents and it's totally obvious they aren't from here.

People need to understand that it's not wrong to ask. It's the context in which it is done that determines whether it is offensive or not. In general, most people want to connect and share. And can tell if you're generally sincere or simply trying to make a point about them not belonging.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

Agreed. I have attempted to overcome my anglo-Canadian tendency to resist asking about where people are from mainly because I am very fascinated to hear about their backgrounds, their families and their lives in the old country, in a true SSP forum, city nerd kind of way. That said, I tend to limit it to cases where people have accents and it's totally obvious they aren't from here.

I've actually had some really interesting discussions and found out cool and important stuff by being curious.

For example, when I was much younger I met this Chinese-Canadian fellow from Alberta who was totally indistinguishable from your average Anglo-Canadian. His family had been in Canada for many, many generations. This was the early 1990s. Until then I had never realized that this country had people of Chinese origin going back to the 19th century.

A non-curious person might simply assume that his parents had moved to Canada from Hong Kong in the 1980s or something.