The not so Great Racism in Canada Thread

[dleung]

^^I tend to get annoyed by the semi-cultish language those intersectionality people use... like "queer space" or "brown bodies"... why not "brown PEOPLE"? lol. But as a concept of course it goes right over the heads of people who try to downplay racism with "well EVERYONE gets discriminated from time to time".

Also pretty revealing about the IQ level of those who go "but what about black on black crime?" every time an unarmed black guy gets murdered by corrupt cops, as if getting killed by someone known to the victim is a thing unique to one race...

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by dleung

^^I tend to get annoyed by the language those intersectionality people use... like "queer space" or "brown bodies"... why not "brown PEOPLE"? lol

Because people are not defined by their skin tone?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Such as?

It's not like this is the first time this has happened. Things have escalated to full on riots several times in the past, after endless peaceful protesting and other means of trying to get attention. It never works.

To me we're in a culmination of racist police crimes against black people not being dealt with, and an "occupy wallstreet" frustration with wealth inequity and the rich getting bailed out again.

That's why these protests are widespread, and plenty of people from all races are participating.

Add to that, social media everywhere, and absolutely shocking displays of police violence and escalation.

Final straw is a complete racist idiot in the whitehouse, totally incapable of dealing with this type of crisis. We saw it on display for COVID19, and here we go again. A total coward.

There was already a "win" in that police chiefs from all over the U.S. including major cities broke with the traditional "thin blue line" solidarity and said, variably, that this was horrible, that it was murder, that he should be criminally charged or jailed.

Even the Minneapolis police chief threw his own officer under the bus (deservedly so), something which basically never happened before.

Not that the guy enjoying his new flatscreen TV stolen from Target really cares about any of that...

And I am not saying that the "wins" mentioned above are exhaustive and sufficient. Obviously not.

If Derek Chauvin gets "off" or is even perceived as getting "off" then all bets are indeed off.

That said, in light of the mayhem going on I don't see much political or public support for American cops in urban areas adopting a more Dudley Do-Right approach to their work. In that sense I'd agree that the rioting and looting are probably very counter-productive.

If anyone thinks that the ultimate result of this will be a more emasculated police community they need to have their head examined.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Because people are not defined by their skin tone?

Well, they are. Not that they should be. At least no more than they are by hair colour, eye colour, etc.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

The (convoluted) trial is still ongoing, afaik. I would expect more controversy when the verdict is finally rendered ...

I have been invited via Facebook to a protest march on the U.S. embassy in Ottawa some time this week.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Well, they are. Not that they should be. At least no more than they are by hair colour, eye colour, etc.

I neither agree nor disagree, I was just speculating on why the language choices might be what they apparently are.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Perhaps you think it's laughable because you don't know what it means.

Intersectionality

One can definitely be well-versed in the concept and still consider it absurd.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Perhaps you think it's laughable because you don't know what it means.

Intersectionality

Yes?

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Acajack

That said, in light of the mayhem going on I don't see much political or public support for American cops in urban areas adopting a more Dudley Do-Right approach to their work. In that sense I'd agree that the rioting and looting are probably very counter-productive.

If anyone thinks that the ultimate result of this will be a more emasculated police community they need to have their head examined.

Indeed.

The reason why Martin Luther King Jr. looks so good in hindsight is that he advocated non-violence. So, his protests were non-violent in the face of extreme violence from the police.

So, as the average American watched police sending vicious dogs after non-violent protesters, the police looked like the bad guys.

A heavy-handed response to looters looks like 'law and order'. A heavy-handed response to peaceful protesters looks like the police are bad guys. If you're trying to influence public opinion, which looks better?

The video of the arrest spoke for itself and was a severe blow to the thin blue line. The looting undoes that.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by wave46

Indeed.

The reason why Martin Luther King Jr. looks so good in hindsight is that he advocated non-violence. So, his protests were non-violent in the face of extreme violence from the police.

So, as the average American watched police sending vicious dogs after non-violent protesters, the police looked like the bad guys.

A heavy-handed response to looters looks like 'law and order'. A heavy-handed response to peaceful protesters looks like the police are bad guys. If you're trying to influence public opinion, which looks better?

The video of the arrest spoke for itself and was a severe blow to the thin blue line. The looting undoes that.

There were a few slippages on the part of police in the early days last week that looked particularly brutal (drive-by pepper spray for example), but in recent days they seem to have regained the upper hand in terms of PR.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Acajack

As KW mentioned there have been violent incidents involving the Toronto police and minorities fairly recently. Montreal has had serious issues with this in the past though appears to have been a bit quieter in recent years - at least in terms of deaths and cop shootings. There are still complaints about racial profiling and harassment there though. Ottawa has had a highly publicized police-involved death case involving a minority person in the recent year or so that AFAIK is not fully resolved yet.

I don't deny that there are issues in Canadian cities with large black populations. But at the same time one could ask where the mass protests involving huge numbers of white people were when those incidents happened? Why start right now when the risk of spreading disease is so high? (This is rhetorical, I know the answer... it's because we take our cues on this stuff from the United States.)

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Acajack

One can definitely be well-versed in the concept and still consider it absurd.

Not saying I'm a devoted follower, but the poster mis-characterized the term.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Acajack

There were a few slippages on the part of police in the early days last week that looked particularly brutal (drive-by pepper spray for example), but in recent days they seem to have regained the upper hand in terms of PR.

Recent days? The whole thing is only about 5 days old. Check films from last night, there's tons of examples of police going after media, protesters doing nothing wrong, etc.

How about the national guard shooting rubber bullets at people standing in on their porch?

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by esquire

I don't deny that there are issues in Canadian cities with large black populations. But at the same time one could ask where the mass protests involving huge numbers of white people were when those incidents happened? Why start right now when the risk of spreading disease is so high? (This is rhetorical, I know the answer... it's because we take our cues on this stuff from the United States.)

Yesterday's protest in Ottawa was in relation to the Toronto incident. Again, one strikes while the iron is hot ...

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

I don't deny that there are issues in Canadian cities with large black populations. But at the same time one could ask where the mass protests involving huge numbers of white people were when those incidents happened? Why start right now when the risk of spreading disease is so high? (This is rhetorical, I know the answer... it's because we take our cues on this stuff from the United States.)

We are in agreement.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Yesterday's protest in Ottawa was in relation to the Toronto incident. Again, one strikes while the iron is hot ...

Oh, there was a protest in Ottawa?

[milomilo]

I'm truly confused by those outside of the US that would waste their time, energy and emotions on protesting for a US cause. It's a US problem and theirs alone to fix - the entire world could protest and it wouldn't matter one bit if they don't want to fix it.

Additionally, there are Canadian grown instances of racism which they actually could affect, but are choosing not to. The treatment of the indigenous is much more relevant to Canada, and yet Canadians jump on the bandwagon to support something they have zero consequence from or effect on.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Acajack

My assessment exactly.

I don't think it is fair to stereotype anglo quebeckers in this way, just based on your anecdotal observations.
Based on my personal experiences, I can say that there are plenty of 'woke' francophone students at UoM and UQAM. I wouldn't describe francophone university students as a monolithic block, because this would be absolutely reductionist and untrue. To me this is not much different than people in small towns out in the bible belt of BC that opined to me that "All Frenchies are separatists" (when I know first hand that many francophones "did not drink that Koolaid", to use an expression someone brought up on this thread).

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Oh, there was a protest in Ottawa?

Reports describe it as a "peaceful vigil" attended by "hundreds" in Dundonald Park. Masks worn and social distancing adhered to.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by milomilo

I'm truly confused by those outside of the US that would waste their time, energy and emotions on protesting for a US cause. It's a US problem and theirs alone to fix - the entire world could protest and it wouldn't matter one bit if they don't want to fix it.

Additionally, there are Canadian grown instances of racism which they actually could affect, but are choosing not to. The treatment of the indigenous is much more relevant to Canada, and yet Canadians jump on the bandwagon to support something they have zero consequence from or effect on.

But it's trendy and cool!

Hating on America is also a fun past-time for the world. Far more fun that actually dealing with one's internal problems, since that would actually require work.

Our inability to focus on our own problems is not a good thing - it stifles progress in this country. However, since people treat news as entertainment, America can't be beat there.