The not so Great Racism in Canada Thread

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Acajack

"Usually"????? execute blacks???

All the underlined parts are links. Feel free to click for more information.

Originally Posted by Acajack

BTW female and male Karens vote. And there are lots of them.

Indeed, Trump is counting on that. He's hoping it works out as well as 1968 did for Nixon. Back then Karens were saying the saying the exact same thing about Civil Rights protesters.

[p_xavier]

I'm mixed raced and I've been profiled everywhere except in the USA (! Nexus card helps). You have no idea how irritating it is to keep being searched on trains in Europe or stopped at customs and asked what are my links to terrorist groups.

Racism is a big issue in Canada, but I would say it's more of a xenophobia thing. Go to Atlantic cities, citizens won't even talk to people because they're from one town over...

Anyhow, that xenophobia is usually fueled by stereotypes, and damn there are lots of stereotyped people. I can basically say someone's dog's name just by seeing a picture of the person. So how can you remove racism without removing stereotypes? There's so much peer pressure from the cultural communities to act in a certain way that it's difficult to blame the stereotypes.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lio45

That's pretty obviously a direct consequence of their sacred Second Amendment. Police work in a First World Democracy Where The Guy You're About to Deal With Is Probably Armed vs Police Work in a First World Democracy Where Guns Are Illegal and Very Rare = that's a major difference in how you have to approach the very job.

Has absolutely zero to do with Second Amendment. 2A has been around long before law enforcement was getting surprlus armoured vehicles and predator drones. The change happened in the last decade when police were encouraged to take on a "warrior" mindset to combat terrorism. So now they see themselves as soldiers rather than someone empowered to keep the peace and enforce the law. Even aside from non-racialized interactions, there's the possibility of cops being tempted to frame suspects as threats to be eliminated rather than de-escalated. The shooting/murder of Sammy Yatim on a TTC streetcar by Const. James Forcillo comes to mind.

Militarization didn't happen substantially in other democracies. In Canada, for example, actual response to any terrorism issue, remained the responsibility of higher end tactical units of higher tier forces (OPP, SQ, RCMP, etc.). It's kept local beatcops focused on policing. I have no doubts that if Toronto and Montreal police were given armoured vehicles and warrior training, we'd see similar issues in our cities.

Had there been more of a focus on community policing and attempts to equip police departments with non-lethal tools, we'd probably have seen far fewer deaths overall, and a reduction in overall tensions with that. Should be noted that Obama attempted to stop the programs that provide the donation of heavy military gear to police forces, in the wake of the Michael Brown incident. Trump reversed those policies.

Originally Posted by casper

Trump is someone who has convinced himself he is not racist while at the same time being racist.

Trump is not the only one who thinks that. There's some on this forum. The difference is that nobody in this club is running a country.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by p_xavier

I'm mixed raced and I've been profiled everywhere except in the USA (! Nexus card helps). You have no idea how irritating it is to keep being searched on trains in Europe or stopped at customs and asked what are my links to terrorist groups.

Racism is a big issue in Canada, but I would say it's more of a xenophobia thing. Go to Atlantic cities, citizens won't even talk to people because they're from one town over...

I am grateful that we don't have it as bad as the US or Europe. So there's that....

While on exchange in the US, I remember talking to one of my black colleagues. He had spent most of his teenage years in Egypt, since his mother was a diplomat. He moved back to the US to start college and join the Navy. His mom had to give him "the talk" about being a young black man in college, before he returned. Worries about interactions with police officers. Possibly being falsely accused of rape. Etc. Shit that his mother didn't worry about while outside the US.

At least being brown in Canada, I can't say I've ever worried about getting shot in Canada by the cops on any interaction. But this is something black boys are discussing with their parents often before puberty. Incredible.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

All the underlined parts are links. Feel free to click for more information.
.

Oh I know it's happened. I was just reacting to the use of the term "usually".

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Oh I know it's happened. I was just reacting to the use of the term "usually".

Yes, usually. The busybodies calling the cops on non-whites over ordinary activities, aren't usually other non-whites.

Not saying this is all or even most white people. Just the Karens.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Criminals taking advantage of the chaos? Shocker.

There's plenty of reports of black protesters attempting to stop vandals in thieves.

Here's one pleading with a white woman to stop spray painting:
https://twitter.com/gryking/status/1267101707596632066?s=09

Here's one who got called out breaking windows. They suspected he was a cop because he was wearing a police issue mask:

https://youtu.be/qv-O4rnUToU

There is a lot of "selective observation" going on right now. Downplaying the presence of certain demographics and playing up the presence of others.

I have watched hours of video from the events in the U.S. over the past week, and if you really want to go there... let's just say that anyone with a pair of eyes and an iota of honesty would come away with the following assessment:

Peaceful protesters: multiracial, all ages, male and female

Vandals: multiracial, overwhelmingly young adults and some teens, predominantly male

Looters: predominantly African-American, all adult ages, male and female

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Lots of sympathy or copy-cat or us-too protests going on in other countries, including Canada.

I don't wish for it to happen but if it does get ugly, I wonder if people will still apply the "you can't make an omelette without breaking any eggs" logic?

"Rioters trash downtown St. John's Newfoundland to protest police racism"

Originally Posted by whatnext

Embarrassing how many thousands in Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver just decided the burning need to jump on the protest bandwagon was more important than fighting a global pandemic.

Not to downplay the importance of the matter at hand, but I am really not sure that copycat rallies in Canada are really the best idea right now. I kind of figured once this started blowing up in the US that it wouldn't take long for Toronto to get in on the action and bless their hearts they wasted no time waiting, but I would hope that it doesn't become an across Canada thing with protests in the streets of Red Deer, Trois-Rivieres or wherever.

It will be interesting to see what kind of death toll can be attributed to the mass rallies and protests in the US... there is no way that those types of mass gatherings won't lead to coronavirus spread.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by esquire

Not to downplay the importance of the matter at hand, but I am really not sure that copycat rallies in Canada are really the best idea right now. I kind of figured once this started blowing up in the US that it wouldn't take long for Toronto to get in on the action and bless their hearts they wasted no time waiting, but I would hope that it doesn't become an across Canada thing with protests in the streets of Red Deer, Trois-Rivieres or wherever.

It will be interesting to see what kind of death toll can be attributed to the mass rallies and protests in the US... there is no way that those types of mass gatherings won't lead to coronavirus spread.

Striking while the iron is hot is seldom a bad strategy. There has also been a controversial case in Toronto in recent days. It is true that covid-19 makes for a unique complicating factor.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

Not to downplay the importance of the matter at hand, but I am really not sure that copycat rallies in Canada are really the best idea right now. I kind of figured once this started blowing up in the US that it wouldn't take long for Toronto to get in on the action and bless their hearts they wasted no time waiting, but I would hope that it doesn't become an across Canada thing with protests in the streets of Red Deer, Trois-Rivieres or wherever.

It will be interesting to see what kind of death toll can be attributed to the mass rallies and protests in the US... there is no way that those types of mass gatherings won't lead to coronavirus spread.

As KW mentioned there have been violent incidents involving the Toronto police and minorities fairly recently. Montreal has had serious issues with this in the past though appears to have been a bit quieter in recent years - at least in terms of deaths and cop shootings. There are still complaints about racial profiling and harassment there though. Ottawa has had a highly publicized police-involved death case involving a minority person in the recent year or so that AFAIK is not fully resolved yet.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by esquire

Not to downplay the importance of the matter at hand, but I am really not sure that copycat rallies in Canada are really the best idea right now. I kind of figured once this started blowing up in the US that it wouldn't take long for Toronto to get in on the action and bless their hearts they wasted no time waiting, but I would hope that it doesn't become an across Canada thing with protests in the streets of Red Deer, Trois-Rivieres or wherever.

It is interesting to note that as soon as something like this starts in the US, we just jump on-board that bandwagon full-tilt. Even if it doesn't really represent our story here as much - while I'm certain black people experience racism here, it's not our major national shame.

However, we don't see this sort of thing in support had this happened in our country with a person of FN descent. We'd 'tut-tut' and continue about our day. Or complain about that minority.

We really do love gawking at America. So much so that we can barely distinguish our problems from theirs. We're the eager little brother who just wants to be exactly like bigger brother, I guess.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by Acajack

My wife on Montreal disturbance: why are they all arguing with cops in English and are all their signs in English?

The woke SJWs are anglophones. Francophones never drank that kool-aid.

Intersectionalism (which is a laughable concept, putting every culture, race, relgion against each other) never caught on in Québec, it is even ridiculed by the media (as it should be). Until we accept to embrace everyone, racism will continue. And intersectionality IMO has made racism worse.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by wave46

It is interesting to note that as soon as something like this starts in the US, we just jump on-board that bandwagon full-tilt. Even if it doesn't really represent our story here as much - while I'm certain black people experience racism here, it's not our major national shame.

However, we don't see this sort of thing in support had this happened in our country with a person of FN descent. We'd 'tut-tut' and continue about our day. Or complain about that minority.

We really do love gawking at America. So much so that we can barely distinguish our problems from theirs. We're the eager little brother who just wants to be exactly like bigger brother, I guess.

I don't think I have ever seen more people than can fill a yellow school bus protesting the fact that many of Canada's indigenous communities still don't have drinking water. And even so, almost everyone at those protest was indigenous and probably from the communities in question.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by p_xavier

The woke SJWs are anglophones. Francophones never drank that kool-aid.

Intersectionalism (which is a laughable concept, putting every culture, race, relgion against each other) never caught on in Québec, it is even ridiculed by the media (as it should be). Until we accept to embrace everyone, racism will continue. And intersectionality IMO has made racism worse.

My assessment exactly.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Acajack

There is lots of talk about "Karen" these days.

Karen might think what happened to George Floyd was horrible and that the cops should be jailed, but Karen still won't support overthrowing the entire system in which cops exist.

People should focus on what wins are within reach.

Such as?

It's not like this is the first time this has happened. Things have escalated to full on riots several times in the past, after endless peaceful protesting and other means of trying to get attention. It never works.

To me we're in a culmination of racist police crimes against black people not being dealt with, and an "occupy wallstreet" frustration with wealth inequity and the rich getting bailed out again.

That's why these protests are widespread, and plenty of people from all races are participating.

Add to that, social media everywhere, and absolutely shocking displays of police violence and escalation.

Final straw is a complete racist idiot in the whitehouse, totally incapable of dealing with this type of crisis. We saw it on display for COVID19, and here we go again. A total coward.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

As KW mentioned there have been violent incidents involving the Toronto police and minorities fairly recently. Montreal has had serious issues with this in the past though appears to have been a bit quieter in recent years - at least in terms of deaths and cop shootings. There are still complaints about racial profiling and harassment there though. Ottawa has had a highly publicized police-involved death case involving a minority person in the recent year or so that AFAIK is not fully resolved yet.

Are you thinking of the Abdirahman Abdi killing? That happened almost 4 years ago, but is not yet fully resolved, afaik.

[Acajack]

As voiced by the protestors last night, there have been persistent, serious complaints about racial profiling and harassment on the part of Montreal police for years.

Not sure if there is a correlation but it is also true that if you are the parent of a young visible minority male (especially a black kid), the chances of him showing up in a body bag - often at the hands of someone from the same demographic - are considerably lower in Montreal than in Toronto. Or even Ottawa.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Are you thinking of the Abdirahman Abdi killing? That happened almost 4 years ago, but is not yet fully resolved, afaik.

Wow. That long ago. It's never really left the news cycle.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Wow. That long ago. It's never really left the news cycle.

The (convoluted) trial is still ongoing, afaik. I would expect more controversy when the verdict is finally rendered ...

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by p_xavier

Intersectionalism (which is a laughable concept, putting every culture, race, relgion against each other) never caught on in Québec, it is even ridiculed by the media (as it should be). Until we accept to embrace everyone, racism will continue. And intersectionality IMO has made racism worse.

Perhaps you think it's laughable because you don't know what it means.

Intersectionality