The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by gunnar777

Whatever happened to this plan? Is it still underway?

And will we see it going farther to either Saint Jérôme or Lachute in the far future?

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Seeing those communities served by rail would help with Halifax. However, the old rail routes are windy and would be quite slow. New ROW would be needed.

Currently, you can get to Windsor as well as along the 102 by rail. If regional rail were to come to Halifax, those 2 would be the first easy routes.

It isn't just that they're windy; it's that they're unusable. The routes to the Shore Shore and Eastern Shore have been converted into recreational trails and the route to Annapolis Valley has been allowed to degrade to the point that it would require significant investment to make it functional. Most of it looks like this.

[begratto]

Originally Posted by gunnar777

Whatever happened to this plan? Is it still underway?

It's under construction.

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

And will we see it going farther to either Saint Jérôme or Lachute in the far future?

The train already reaches St-Jérôme. They're adding the station between St-Jérôme and Blainville

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

It isn't just that they're windy; it's that they're unusable. The routes to the Shore Shore and Eastern Shore have been converted into recreational trails and the route to Annapolis Valley has been allowed to degrade to the point that it would require significant investment to make it functional. Most of it looks like this.

I didn't realize it was that bad. I thought it was still usable to Windsor.

[SkahHigh]

Originally Posted by gunnar777

Whatever happened to this plan? Is it still underway?

Yes, probably the last commuter rail station to be built for a while.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by someone123

Halifax Transit's planning has become a lot more ambitious lately. A couple of years ago the plan was to tweak things over a 15-year period and now council is looking at overhauling the system with new BRT routes, ferries, and electric buses by 2030. They found that back in 2017, 89% of bus service could already have been electrified, and it looks like it's not very expensive to switch fleet renewal over to electrics (moderately capital cost, moderately lower maintenance and fuel costs).

This plan was approved by Halifax regional council: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scot...orses-2-rapid-transit-projects-1.5585834

- Estimated $786M cost over 8 years
- Half of buses in the fleet will be electric
- 4 BRT routes will be built
- 3 new ferry terminals will be built (there are 3 today, so there will be 6 total)

[Nouvellecosse]

The e-buses are probably the most notable transit improvement in the last 50 years

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

The e-buses are probably the most notable transit improvement in the last 50 years

I think the plan is the most ambitious one since the trolleybus system was created in 1949.

The ferries are pretty interesting too. The report says they could run at up to 46 km/h while the current ferries only go around 18 km/h. The Bedford-Halifax ferry will be competitive with driving times, and much faster than the current buses. The impetus for the ferries is that the Bedford Highway is congested and hard to expand, and there has been a lot of growth in that area.

[Dengler Avenue]

https://news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2020/05/ontario-york-region-sign-landmark-transit-agreement.html

It seems that TTC Line 1 is going to Richmond Hill Centre for real.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

It seems that TTC Line 1 is going to Richmond Hill Centre for real.

How close is the inner part of this line to maximum capacity? There's been talk of a relief line for decades, while extensions seem like they would add more pressure.

I wonder about subway being used for a long route with comparatively sparse transit coverage. I'd expect commuter rail to be better for that setting. New York has express lines with extra tracks that work better for long distances but I haven't heard of those being contemplated for Toronto, and that is a very expensive approach compared to commuter rail.

There already are 3 GO trains that serve roughly the area of the line 1 extensions (Barrie, Richmond Hill, Stouffville). If I were commuting to downtown Toronto from Richmond Hill I'd rather get on a GO train and have 4 stops instead of sitting through 25 stops or whatever the subway line will have. And if there are commuter rail issues like scheduling problems then I wonder why they could not be resolved with a small portion of the amount of funding that would be needed for subway construction.

[JHikka]

Is Metrolinx still under the belief that the Ontario Line has to be in service before this extension can be put into service? I know OL is meant to be more of a Union Station relief line but it still serves as a Yonge Subway relief line as well. Adding Richmond Hill would push capacity issues even higher.

Originally Posted by someone123

How close is the inner part of this line to maximum capacity? There's been talk of a relief line for decades, while extensions seem like they would add more pressure.

Somebody can correct me on this but I think Line 1 is pretty much at peak capacity now.

[Innsertnamehere]

^yup.

The ontario line is intended to relieve Union Station as well as the Yonge line. Having it go further north to Eglinton is going to take a lot of pressure off of line 1.

[savevp]

The Richmond Hill GO Train will only be rush hour, unidirectional service for the foreseeable future; there aren't any plans to convert it to full RER.

Yonge Street in York Region, at least, has proper bus service with Viva and lots of local buses that presently go to Finch. So none of the issues surrounding overcapacity on the Yonge line will be solved until the new signalling and Ontario Line are complete, but in terms of ridership, this extension does serve a dense, transit-rich corridor.

[Dengler Avenue]

I think the issue is that Richmond Hill Go Train Line shares tracks with CN(?) so that all-day service is impossible. Maybe that’s why extending it to Richmond Hill is “urgent”? As for subway express tracks, I’ve read discussions on UrbanToronto. From what I understand, that is also a costly feat.

I get it though. Sitting through 25 stops is boring. Lol, many may find it still better than sitting through Traffic on Yonge Street even on the Viva though.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

https://news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2020/05/ontario-york-region-sign-landmark-transit-agreement.html

It seems that TTC Line 1 is going to Richmond Hill Centre for real.

So much bullshit in one announcement:

"This plan represents the largest subway expansion in Canadian history."

"major employment centres, such as Markham and Richmond Hill."

"Premier Ford's historic "New Subway Transit Plan for the GTA""

"four nationally-significant subway projects."

The relief line (or "Ontario Line") should be the only priority at the moment (and the only one that cold, maybe qualify as "nationally significant"). We cannot place anymore pressure on Line 1.

And they expect the Feds to fund 40%. I assume the Province is funding the rest, no charge to the municipalities?

It pisses me off that Ottawa is stuck with the bill when the cost of Stage 2 goes over the estimate, Hamilton's LRT is canceled before the bids even come in, there's no movement on the most important project in the country (Relief/Ontario Line), yet suburban GTA gets overbuilt and unnecessary subway lines. Suburban GTA could easily get better GO service for much cheaper, or at least above ground subway extensions.

[GeneralLea]

I'm really getting tired of these successive governments changing their plans for transit, and prioritizing these politics-oriented transit expansions which over serve areas that don't need this level of transit, especially compared to inner city neighbourhoods and transit routes that could make the TTC subway and transit system more functional and contain more loops/interchanges.

The lack of information released on the Ontario Line in itself is rather concerning, nevermind the prior actions of this gov't.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by GeneralLeeTPHLS

I'm really getting tired of these successive governments changing their plans for transit, and prioritizing these politics-oriented transit expansions which over serve areas that don't need this level of transit, especially compared to inner city neighbourhoods and transit routes that could make the TTC subway and transit system more functional and contain more loops/interchanges.

The lack of information released on the Ontario Line in itself is rather concerning, nevermind the prior actions of this gov't.

Agreed. Many governments ignore the densest parts of cities that have a need and a solid business case for rapid transit in favour of easy political points.

It seems the Ontario Line was drawn up on the back of a napkin and then shelved. They talk about it a lot, but I don't think we've seen any concrete action to move it towards reality.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by GeneralLeeTPHLS

I'm really getting tired of these successive governments changing their plans for transit, and prioritizing these politics-oriented transit expansions which over serve areas that don't need this level of transit, especially compared to inner city neighbourhoods and transit routes that could make the TTC subway and transit system more functional and contain more loops/interchanges.

The lack of information released on the Ontario Line in itself is rather concerning, nevermind the prior actions of this gov't.

... how else can a politician get in? No one got in saying "we are going to continue with what they did."

[Doady]

Before COVID-19, Yonge between Finch and Steeles saw a TTC bus in each direction every 2 minutes 19 seconds during peak hour. And a YRT bus every 2 minutes 2 seconds. That's a bus every 65 seconds. And no there is no GO alternative.

This is easily the busiest bus corridor in the GTA, if not the busiest in North America. Only Dundas between 427 and Kipling comes close. Anyone who thinks this is a low ridership corridor has no fucking clue what they are talking about.

Problem is not that the Yonge corridor is not busy enough for subway, it's that the Yonge corridor is too busy for subway. They need to divert riders away from the corridor. They need to lower the ridership, not increase the ridership. Subway extension cannot happen without the DRL.

Rush hour frequences (before COVID-19):

53 Steeles East 5.5 minutes
60 Steeles West 4 minutes
Viva Blue 7.5 minutes
Viva Purple 15 minutes
2 Milliken 26 minutes
77 Highway 7 20 minutes
88 Bathurst 15 minutes
91 Bayview 12 minutes
99 Yonge South 19 minutes

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Doady

Before COVID-19, Yonge between Finch and Steeles saw a TTC bus in each direction every 2 minutes 19 seconds during peak hour. And a YRT bus every 2 minutes 2 seconds. That's a bus every 65 seconds. And no there is no GO alternative.

This is easily the busiest bus corridor in the GTA, if not the busiest in North America. Only Dundas between 427 and Kipling comes close. Anyone who thinks this is a low ridership corridor has no fucking clue what they are talking about.

Problem is not that the Yonge corridor is not busy enough for subway, it's that the Yonge corridor is too busy for subway. They need to divert riders away from the corridor. They need to lower the ridership, not increase the ridership. Subway extension cannot happen without the DRL.

Rush hour frequences (before COVID-19):

53 Steeles East 5.5 minutes
60 Steeles West 4 minutes
Viva Blue 7.5 minutes
Viva Purple 15 minutes
2 Milliken 26 minutes
77 Highway 7 20 minutes
88 Bathurst 15 minutes
91 Bayview 12 minutes
99 Yonge South 19 minutes

Too be clear, my biggest opposition to the project is the lack of a downtown relief line. That needs to be addressed first and foremost.

I have a lot of animosity against the Vaughn extension. It could have been built far cheaper by elevating the line, at least partially, and right-sizing the stations, possibly even holding off on building a few of them.

I also have a major issue with Queen's Park, the Provincial Government, acting like a regional government for the GTA (yes, GO Transit, but Ford's subway plan should be TTC projects).