Office Market Discussion

[csbvan]

It sounds like they are still moving ahead with their recent leases in Toronto, and they still plan to have a hub in Vancouver, but this move shows that the writing is on the wall for new office demand, particularly for tech companies:

Shopify Is Joining Twitter in Permanent Work-From-Home Shift

Shopify Inc. will allow its 5,000 employees to work from home indefinitely, even after the dangers of the coronavirus pandemic fade and cities lift shutdowns.

The company plans to keep its offices largely closed for the rest of the year as it re-designs its space for a “digital by default” mindset and adjusts to a remote work environment, Tobi Lutke, chief executive officer of the Canadian e-commerce giant, said in an interview with Bloomberg Television. Offices will be limited to 20% to 25% capacity after that.

....

Shopify announced last year it would open an office at the Well, part of a plan to double its workforce in Toronto to 1,500 by 2022. The office-retail-residential complex being developed by Allied Properties Real Estate Investment Trust and RioCan Real Estate Investment, will be one of the city’s largest, and Shopify was due to lease 254,000 square feet (23,600 square meters). The company plans to go ahead with the lease and will continue to retain hubs in Toronto, Ottawa, Waterloo, Montreal and Vancouver, the spokeswoman said.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...witter-in-permanent-work-from-home-shift

[NewfBC]

Originally Posted by csbvan

It sounds like they are still moving ahead with their recent leases in Toronto, and they still plan to have a hub in Vancouver, but this move shows that the writing is on the wall for new office demand, particularly for tech companies:



https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...witter-in-permanent-work-from-home-shift

Shopify's plans for a new Vancouver office with 1,000 employees in doubt
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/shopify-...roQtXC-nnGM50--yaaTC5TrEZQyJe8taheuBoVeQ

Ron.

[jollyburger]

SoftBank values WeWork at $2.9 billion, down from $47 billion a year ago

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/18/softbank...-valuation-falls-to-2point9-billion.html

[misher]

Originally Posted by csbvan

It sounds like they are still moving ahead with their recent leases in Toronto, and they still plan to have a hub in Vancouver, but this move shows that the writing is on the wall for new office demand, particularly for tech companies:



https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...witter-in-permanent-work-from-home-shift

Some tech is booming. I wouldn't count tech office demand out yet. We may see a return to normal by 2021.

[Mininari]

Keep in mind that for businesses that do wish to maintain regular office contact at full or part-time levels may be forced to have more space per employee now to maintain physical distancing.

Dare I speculate that this could become the standard moving forward. The days of cramming people into smaller and smaller workstations, open-concept layouts with people working shoulder-to-shoulder might need to be walked back a bit.

I wonder how elevators are going to function -- I've heard some buildings are only permitting two occupants per elevator car right now.

[officedweller]

CF is limiting to 4 per elevator.
I wonder if this will spur new office (or even condo) towers to be designed with more (expensive) elevators in the plans.

[officedweller]

PS - wrt the sale of the Landing - I wonder what's happening with the air rights over the tracks?

[s211]

Originally Posted by Mininari

I wonder how elevators are going to function -- I've heard some buildings are only permitting two occupants per elevator car right now.

Two-to-four people appears to be the range, for at least the next short while. Seems to be the trend across most major North American cities.

[csbvan]

Originally Posted by misher

Some tech is booming. I wouldn't count tech office demand out yet. We may see a return to normal by 2021.

It isn't about whether or not tech is booming - it is - it's what the corporate tech leaders are doing, and that is moving away from offices and toward work-from-home arrangements. This isn't a "during COVID" blip, these are three tech giants (Twitter, Facebook and Shopify...so far) who are fundamentally reorganizing the way that their companies function, and permanently reducing their office requirements. Couple this with the collapse of WeWork, and I don't think we are going to see a return to normal by 2021. In fact, I would suggest updating your definition of what normal even means in the office market.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by csbvan

It isn't about whether or not tech is booming - it is - it's what the corporate tech leaders are doing, and that is moving away from offices and toward work-from-home arrangements. This isn't a "during COVID" blip, these are three tech giants (Twitter, Facebook and Shopify...so far) who are fundamentally reorganizing the way that their companies function, and permanently reducing their office requirements. Couple this with the collapse of WeWork, and I don't think we are going to see a return to normal by 2021. In fact, I would suggest updating your definition of what normal even means in the office market.

Twitter and Shopify aren't tech giants.

[csbvan]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Twitter and Shopify aren't tech giants.

They are very large tech companies, with Shopify now jockeying to be Canada's most valuable company. There's no definition of 'tech giants', I'm using it to imply large, multi-billion dollar tech companies. So thanks for your meaningless post on semantics that has offered so much value to this conversation

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by officedweller

CF is limiting to 4 per elevator.
I wonder if this will spur new office (or even condo) towers to be designed with more (expensive) elevators in the plans.

I don't think we should worry about permanent social distancing...




I don't imagine these companies would be able to forgo the office space. Otherwise it's no longer a choice to work from home, it's a requirement.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by officedweller

PS - wrt the sale of the Landing - I wonder what's happening with the air rights over the tracks?

Nothing.

[Metro-One]

Yeah, I find it funny how people think social distancing will last forever. I am sure there will be a few lingering habits and protocols from this event but we are not going to be eating at restaurants with plexiglass between us and sitting at half empty venues forever.

Another aspect people seem to forget about working from home is it would likely worsen the obesity crisis as it would compound the sedentary life style. Going to work is actually a good driver at getting people to move on a daily basis. It’s a great excuse for me to ride my bike on most days, unless the weather —, then I drive

[csbvan]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Yeah, I find it funny how people think social distancing will last forever. I am sure there will be a few lingering habits and protocols from this event but we are not going to be eating at restaurants with plexiglass between us and sitting at half empty venues forever.

Another aspect people seem to forget about working from home is it would likely worsen the obesity crisis as it would compound the sedentary life style. Going to work is actually a good driver at getting people to move on a daily basis. It’s a great excuse for me to ride my bike on most days, unless the weather —, then I drive

I don't think that people assume social distancing will last forever. Companies are moving to permanent work-from-home arrangements not to accommodate social distancing, but to cut costs, increase the geographic breadth of their recruitment, and, although likely not intended, save money for their employees. There really isn't a comparison between sitting in half-empty venues and working-from-home. Restaurant protocols will be temporary, but WFH is the acceleration of a trend that was already slowly starting. Technology has made it possible, and cost-implications will make it desirable. With companies forced to quickly accelerate the adoption of the technology that makes working form homer possible and reliable, why wouldn't they leverage that to their benefit? Especially with the world in the midst of a massive economic crisis, companies will be looking to cut costs and excessive office space will likely be on the chopping block. Companies that adopt working-from-home as an option or as the standard won't necessarily forego offices entirely, but they will likely reduce their footprint.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Yeah, I find it funny how people think social distancing will last forever. I am sure there will be a few lingering habits and protocols from this event but we are not going to be eating at restaurants with plexiglass between us and sitting at half empty venues forever.

Another aspect people seem to forget about working from home is it would likely worsen the obesity crisis as it would compound the sedentary life style. Going to work is actually a good driver at getting people to move on a daily basis. It’s a great excuse for me to ride my bike on most days, unless the weather —, then I drive

This.

50 million people died of the Spanish Flu.

Pretty sure we moved on just fine over the last 100 years cramming 20 people into elevator cabs at a time.

It will take a year, two, or three. Will all be back crammed like sardines on transit and in office towers.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by csbvan

I don't think that people assume social distancing will last forever. Companies are moving to permanent work-from-home arrangements not to accommodate social distancing, but to cut costs, increase the geographic breadth of their recruitment, and, although likely not intended, save money for their employees. There really isn't a comparison between sitting in half-empty venues and working-from-home. Restaurant protocols will be temporary, but WFH is the acceleration of a trend that was already slowly starting. Technology has made it possible, and cost-implications will make it desirable. With companies forced to quickly accelerate the adoption of the technology that makes working form homer possible and reliable, why wouldn't they leverage that to their benefit? Especially with the world in the midst of a massive economic crisis, companies will be looking to cut costs and excessive office space will likely be on the chopping block. Companies that adopt working-from-home as an option or as the standard won't necessarily forego offices entirely, but they will likely reduce their footprint.

A lot of people cant work from home due to space restrictions, and a lot of people rather work from an office.

A lot of professions also need office space, lawyers, accountants, etc.

Sure, maybe tech changes their uptake. But tech really only became a player in the last decade anyway.

[Changing City]

Clearly some office projects are still moving forward. Francl Architecture submitted the Development Permit for the 500,000 sq. ft+ Lululemon Headqarters near VCC Station. It was rezoned earlier this year, so they're not wasting any time.

[libtard]

Originally Posted by rofina

It will take a year, two, or three. Will all be back crammed like sardines on transit and in office towers.

You really want to believe that don’t you? Does the thought of public transit and office tower construction on the decline terrify you?

[misher]

Originally Posted by libtard

You really want to believe that don’t you? Does the thought of public transit and office tower construction on the decline terrify you?

Honestly I think the same. If you have clients in-person meetings are essential and an office is essential for those meetings. Plus offices serve as a place for storage, transmission of goods, and for interactions between employees. We still use a lot of paper.

I'm sure we'll see a rise in those working from home, but this will be like electric cars between today and next year, we'll see more but the majority will still be gas.

Would you trust a lawyer who didn't have an office for you to come to? Can a plumbing company operate without an office/warehouse to store supplies? Do you really want clients coming to your home for meetings (and would your strata be ok with this)?

Offices are still needed, if perhaps less a tad less than before.

And remember these big companies aren't really focused on cutting their office costs. Maybe small businesses will do it for the savings but others spending someone else's dime won't bother.