Atlanta Project Thread IV

[Ant131531]

People are really comparing China to the U.S. when it comes to building projects? China has nearly 4x the people and the wages there are low so they can hire a ton of people to work on development for very cheap. Unless you want construction wages to be near slave-wages, then that can't work in the U.S. Hell, we've been hearing about labor shortages in the country industry all the time in the last 6 years or so.

[trainiac]

Originally Posted by tturner39

Thought this was interesting, Cousins bought the properties at 903 West Peachtree last month. Not sure if someone has already reported it on here, but hopefully that means something is moving forward soon. On an earnings call, the CEO mentioned that around 80% of the spec supply in Midtown is pre-leased with some unannounced big deals. I'm tracking about 61% of Midtown's office space as pre-leased. So, Cousins seems really bullish on Midtown.

Maybe there's still a chance to build the Daiquiri Factory Lofts.

I was over there the other day and it's so weird to see that building still standing. Of course, I'm old, so I think of it as Thad & Joe's, but still. And the little building on the corner had such future-facing businesses as "we buy gold" and a travel agent

[misher]

Originally Posted by montydawg

For one thing, the government 'owns' all the land in China, so when a local official wants to build something, they just pay 'market value' to the current owner ('owners' actually lease the land for a maximum of 99 years), and then they start building. I've seen also where local communist officials get bonuses and promotions based on how much development goes on in their district, to fulfill the CCP's master plan of moving people from poor rural areas to urban areas, so there is a heavy incentive from the government to develop projects. In the United States, we do not have the same government programs. I would compare it to Roosevelt's public works programs of the 1930's, except on a much larger scale. With US developers having to source funds for projects from banks, not the government in most cases, and without the same government involvement, I don't think you can easily compare progress in China to that of the United States because the incentives are completely different.

Additionally, the Chinese central bank has been known to devalue their currency, so Chinese goods are artificially cheap on the world market. Since the government owns all the banks, I would speculate one way they devalue their currency is to print a lot extra money, to be spent on development and public works projects. The United States, while we take on a lot of debt, has limitations on how much money we can print, and with the trade deficit we have, we cannot go wild printing money as that would devalue our currency too much. As you know, the politicians have other priorities on spending our money, not development or infrastructure, so that is more of a political issue, not a China-USA comparison issue.

Not sure how it works in the USA but I believe its similar to Canada where the government/Crown owns all the land while your granted the right to "freehold" on some of it. Very few nations allow private Ownership of land.

I feel like China's a bit more honest about it. You have a 99 year lease and a contract the government follows. In Canada/America the government just puts in new laws/regulations to take it away or change your rights. Sure it seems more "free" here, until they take it away and give you a $1 to public cheers because your the "bad" guy. The government wasn't willing to offer a competitive price so it stirred up public anger until it became acceptable to expropriate it for $1. Welcome to democracy by the masses where your freedom and rights depend on how much other people like you.

Thats the unfortunate downside to democracy, the people can vote to take away freedom too.

Vancouver city council has voted to expropriate a pair of “blighted” single-room occupancy hotels in the Downtown Eastside for one dollar each.

Cook told council the properties had seen almost 10 offers by “sophisticated, arms-length purchasers” with bids ranging from $7 million to $20 million.

The city says it made an offer to buy the properties back in Aug. 2018 that was ignored. Cooke argued Wednesday that the city had offered $3 million per building, far below competing bids.

https://globalnews.ca/news/6136734/vanco...ted-downtown-eastside-hotels-for-1-each/

[Libertarian]

Any "downside to democracy" is far outweighed by the upsides. Who are you working for anyway. The slumlord had allowed the net fair market to evaporate due to squeezing out every dollar of cash flow resulting in huge deferred maintenance. The so-called arm-length offers were sketchy and furthermore the city's initial offers were ignored. Under such circumstances the democratically elected council has every right to employ extreme measures.

[montydawg]

Originally Posted by Libertarian

Any "downside to democracy" is far outweighed by the upsides. Who are you working for anyway. The slumlord had allowed the net fair market to evaporate due to squeezing out every dollar of cash flow resulting in huge deferred maintenance. The so-called arm-length offers were sketchy and furthermore the city's initial offers were ignored. Under such circumstances the democratically elected council has every right to employ extreme measures.

I think he is confusing eminent domain with property ownership, which are related, but separate issues. China uses a form of eminent domain for public infrastructure and ‘private’ development on a much wider scale than that seen in Canada or America. I would not take this example of property neglect to infer that it is the norm in western countries.

[Neighbor]

I think this still overlooks, or at least minimizes, the main issue here. Regardless of who owns the land, building timelines in America are absurd. In fact, I would think there's a strong argument that when the Government does a construction project it more than likely will take longer than if it were private (i.e. Big Dig, Seattle waterfront, etc.). The point is, construction times, imo, are trending towards unsustainable degrees. How can you build for anticipated population growth and continental demographic changes when a simple building takes 5 years or more to build. It simply can't keep up with demand. I also don't understand how modern technologies have not expedited this process as they have with efficiencies of nearly every other industry.

I know I'm talking macro level here, but long-term trends don't look good from my arm-chair. Meanwhile, our rivals are thundering ahead on all cylinders. Accepting that China has issues with "ghost cities" and criminally deficient building techniques at times, those are by far a minority of cases and do not diminish from the absolute explosion of modernity and building efficiency that is happening there. It is simply undeniable, ask anyone who has visited China in the past 10 years.

As architectural spectator, what realistic measures can we advocate for here in America to level the playing field and accelerate our building timelines so that the generation working on the buildings can also be the ones who also get to enjoy them?

[montydawg]

Originally Posted by Neighbor

I think this still overlooks, or at least minimizes, the main issue here. Regardless of who owns the land, building timelines in America are absurd.
As architectural spectator, what realistic measures can we advocate for here in America to level the playing field and accelerate our building timelines so that the generation working on the buildings can also be the ones who also get to enjoy them?

I think the issue hurting construction for the last 8 years at least is labor shortages. Many emerging economies are flush with tons of cheap construction labor- not the United States. I think the biggest factor in this is the federal government’s policy on immigration as well as housing costs in areas of high development. That is another debate for another time.

[smArTaLlone]

Located in the heart of the east Atlanta village, 512 Flat Shoals will offer patrons office, retail, and dining destinations throughout an open ground level common court and 20 residential units on two upper levels. A rooftop amenity deck will offer prime visibility across the main arteries of the village and outlying areas. The architecture pays homage to the eclectic vernacular of the area combining a subtle contemporary aesthetic with materials and details that echo its surroundings. The structure itself will be the first phase of an overall revitalization of the property accompanied by a second phase adaptive reuse of the adjacent bank building that is one of the most recognizable buildings in the East Atlanta Village.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CAaBQenpmvo/

[SteveD]

Originally Posted by smArTaLlone

https://www.instagram.com/p/CAaBQenpmvo/

There was a LOT of NIMBY vocal opposition to this in the neighborhood, myself NOT among them, and I for one am very happy to see this moving forward. NIMBYism is a strong force in these parts.

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by SteveD

There was a LOT of NIMBY vocal opposition to this in the neighborhood, myself NOT among them, and I for one am very happy to see this moving forward. NIMBYism is a strong force in these parts.

Wow, thanks for sharing. I’m a little surprised there was such vocal opposition to this. Seems like great infill that we could use in either of our smaller neighborhoods across the city.

[SteveD]

Originally Posted by Street Advocate

Wow, thanks for sharing. I’m a little surprised there was such vocal opposition to this. Seems like great infill that we could use in either of our smaller neighborhoods across the city.

For a large and vocal chunk of this community, any new construction = fight hard and loud...I see right through it...it's pure and unadulterated NIMBYism.

[Pemgin]

What was their argument against it? It looks nice and is in scale with the rest of the area.

[SteveD]

Originally Posted by Pemgin

What was their argument against it? It looks nice and is in scale with the rest of the area.

"The area cannot handle the increase in traffic" "the residences proposed will be cost too much" "it's taking away too many parking spaces" "all the traffic will be funneled onto Haas" "it's too tall it will hulk over surrounding buildings" "why can't things stay the way they are" "I wish it were a Trader Joe's" "I wish it were a neighborhood market" you know how it goes....

[NYbyWAYofGA]

Originally Posted by SteveD

"The area cannot handle the increase in traffic" "the residences proposed will be cost too much" "it's taking away too many parking spaces" "all the traffic will be funneled onto Haas" "it's too tall it will hulk over surrounding buildings" "why can't things stay the way they are" "I wish it were a Trader Joe's" "I wish it were a neighborhood market" you know how it goes....

Lmao at "I wish it were a Trader Joes," as if THAT wouldn't increase car traffic. The hypocrisy and deflection is real. I think that this is a great scale for the EAV. This is the missing middle sorta scale that is lacking throughout intown corridors that I think would take Atlanta to the next level more effectively than the the mega developments going on in the core. Of course, both types of developments are wonderful for intown Atl. Just that those smaller scale, more fine grained developments provide excellent "bookends" in the urban fabric.

[SteveD]

Originally Posted by NYbyWAYofGA

Lmao at "I wish it were a Trader Joes," as if THAT wouldn't increase car traffic. The hypocrisy and deflection is real. I think that this is a great scale for the EAV. This is the missing middle sorta scale that is lacking throughout intown corridors that I think would take Atlanta to the next level more effectively than the the mega developments going on in the core. Of course, both types of developments are wonderful for intown Atl. Just that those smaller scale, more fine grained developments provide excellent "bookends" in the urban fabric.

I completely agree. Myself and a few others were shouting back at the crowd these precise kinds of themes.

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by SteveD

I completely agree. Myself and a few others were shouting back at the crowd these precise kinds of themes.

Glad you were there and supported it, thank you!

[smArTaLlone]

The developer website has it listed as under construction

https://capcityre.com/our-portfolio/indie/

[smArTaLlone]

New team, new design.

https://www.400bishopstreet.com/

[Buck]

Wow, that sucks! They took off the rest of the project (the flatiron part) and made it a parking lot. Great.

[dpoulos27]

Yeah that went from interesting to "meh" really quickly.