Canada's 'housing bubble' deemed close to bursting

[misher]

Originally Posted by theman23

You don't know what you're talking about. You've already been corrected on this multiple times. Do you even read what people post in response to your —?

Day traders pay personal tax rates, and their profits don't get treated as capital gains. No different than the professional landlord.

For the average joe holding his money in the stock market, again there is no distinction between holding real estate and holding investments in the market. You get taxed the capital gains rate when you flip either. You are exempt from capital gains taxes if it is your primary residence. The corollary would be a TFSA, but of course most people have far more value in their homes than in their TFSA. Clear tax advantage to the property owner.

If you're naive, you might argue that dividends are some sort of corollary to rental income as they have a (sometimes) somewhat favourable tax But this ignores that the money earned through dividends has already had income tax paid on it, and the "favourable" tax rate reflects that.

Finally, not declaring income earned is illegal and is not a tax avoidance strategy for the majority of Canadians. This can also be accomplished with real estate.

Unless it’s owned through an offshore company and yes it’s not a tax avoidance strategy for a majority of Canadians. Just a few of them.

And most stock owners are not day traders.

RE investment pays huge taxes. From capital gains on sold property to property transfer taxes to sales taxes on new property. It also results in rental units that are desperately needed.

In comparison stock investment is mostly in American companies.

We should encourage more RE investment over stock investment by changing our taxation to favor it.

That being said I don’t want household debts to rise.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by misher

Unless it’s owned through an offshore company and yes it’s not a tax avoidance strategy for a majority of Canadians. Just a few of them.

And most stock owners are not day traders.

RE investment pays huge taxes. From capital gains on sold property to property transfer taxes to sales taxes on new property. It also results in rental units that are desperately needed.

In comparison stock investment is mostly in American companies.

We should encourage more RE investment over stock investment by changing our taxation to favor it.

That being said I don’t want household debts to rise.

Day trading is the only corollary to the professional landlord.

You're glossing over all the tax advantages of owning an investment property. Essentially all your carrying costs are tax write offs since you're operating a business, and you can claim a capital cost allowance to bring your taxable income as close to zero as possible.

[misher]

Originally Posted by theman23

Day trading is the only corollary to the professional landlord.

You're glossing over all the tax advantages of owning an investment property. Essentially all your carrying costs are tax write offs since you're operating a business, and you can claim a capital cost allowance to bring your taxable income as close to zero as possible.

My argument would be that if it was that good, why do we have a rental crisis? Honestly 1% is more than a crisis, 2% is a crisis, 1% is a disaster. If you look at New York, 2% among affordable rentals is seen as a crisis while our affordable rental rate is likely below 0.5%.
We've completely ignored creating a healthy rental market of 5%. I think confronting this truth was so inconvenient that most ignore it because it would mean supporting landlords which is good for renters long-term but not glamorous like short-term benefits such as a rent freeze.

The vacancy rate of New York’s rental housing stock — the standard against which housing emergencies are judged — is quite revealing of the actual crisis. Apartments that cost about $2,775 a month to rent are considered affordable for a household earning $100,000 a year. These apartments have a vacancy rate of 7.5%, well above the 5% needed for an emergency. Apartments listed at a lower rent are much harder to come by. For these apartments, we are looking at a vacancy rate below 2%, well below the 5% threshold...The new rent laws passed in 2019 do little to address the city’s affordable housing crisis. The changes may be successful at slowing the rate of rent growth, but it will not make it easier for those families to pay that rent, nor will it result in more housing units to give those families greater choices.

This raises a key question: what is the problem we are trying to solve? We believe the goal is to create a housing market robust enough to allow every New Yorker — no matter their income level — options as to where they can live at a price they can afford. The focus should be on constructing more multifamily rental housing overall, especially units that can rent for lower prices.

https://www.mannpublications.com/mannrep...ing-crisis-the-problem-we-need-to-solve/

[theman23]

Already been explained numerous times. It's like talking to a wall.

[Truenorth00]

Misher.

You're obviously too broke to own real estate yourself. So who are you carrying water for? Chinese relatives investing here?

[misher]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Misher.

You're obviously too broke to own real estate yourself. So who are you carrying water for? Chinese relatives investing here?

[mod edit]

Great that we get to see your true colors.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by misher

[mod edit]

Great that we get to see your true colors.

Without the China part of the post, it's an honest question. I've got a reasonable best guess of what other poster's jobs are, and it can help understand one's stance on things. Screaming "racism" is a cheap SJW trick to avoid answering hard questions. Even if it was racist, why not take the high road and answer him?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Without the China part of the post, it's an honest question. I've got a reasonable best guess of what other poster's jobs are, and it can help understand one's stance on things. Screaming "racism" is a cheap SJW trick to avoid answering hard questions. Even if it was racist, why not take the high road and answer him?

Misher has a weird habit of defending the rich, using tired old cliches like they are the job creators, wealth trickles down, etc. Despite revealing that he's not even an above average earner, and suffers from being on the short end of the wealth inequity spectrum. It's odd.

[ssiguy]

God forbid I should come to Misher's defence but his employment, income, and socio-economic standing are completely irrelevant and more importantly no one else's business but his own.

I am both shocked and offended that you guys would even raise such issues and shame on you for doing it.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by theman23

Already been explained numerous times. It's like talking to a wall.

I’m so glad that the Vancouver forum gets to share its gems with the rest of the country. We really are the best place on earth.

[lio45]

I also am a bit puzzled by misher's constant defense of real estate speculators seeing he's not even a property owner (let alone landlording over a portfolio).

At least in my case, when I say I'm personally not going to complain if money-laundering Chinese billionaires go and boost Montreal/Quebec real estate values, I have reasons

[yaletown_fella]

Originally Posted by misher

We should encourage more RE investment over stock investment by changing our taxation to favor it.

No, encouraging speculation in bricks and mortar will just cause rents to soar. Amateur real estate investment is usually the worst kind that causes rents to soar because so many amateur landlords turn to renting out rooms or AirBNB.

If you want to encourage domestic investment in real estate, I would encourage investment in Canadian REITs , nothing more.

[misher]

Originally Posted by yaletown_fella

No, encouraging speculation in bricks and mortar will just cause rents to soar. Small fries real estate investment should be discouraged.

Most people should be investing in Canadian REITS that build purpose rental stock, not small landlords who are using AirBNB or renting out rooms/flophouses.

Yes I agree, this is mostly what I meant. Encourage investment in PBRE.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Without the China part of the post, it's an honest question. I've got a reasonable best guess of what other poster's jobs are, and it can help understand one's stance on things. Screaming "racism" is a cheap SJW trick to avoid answering hard questions. Even if it was racist, why not take the high road and answer him?

What exactly is racist about it?

Misher shows a ton of ignorance about investment. He is highly defensive about any criticism of China (no such defence of other nations) and pumping real estate. It's the confluence of his various behaviours and viewpoints that has me questioning his motivation. I'm open to hearing where those views come from.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

What exactly is racist about it?

Misher shows a ton of ignorance about investment. He is highly defensive about any criticism of China (no such defence of other nations) and pumping real estate. It's the confluence of his various behaviours and viewpoints that has me questioning his motivation. I'm open to hearing where those views come from.

I didn't say it was racist, just saying "even if it was". I agree.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by yaletown_fella

No, encouraging speculation in bricks and mortar will just cause rents to soar. Amateur real estate investment is usually the worst kind that causes rents to soar because so many amateur landlords turn to renting out rooms or AirBNB.

If you want to encourage domestic investment in real estate, I would encourage investment in Canadian REITs , nothing more.

You can't get massive leverage and speculate substantially on asset appreciation/inflation with a REIT. Speculators aren't interested in honest, stable, income generating investments managed by professionals.

[ssiguy]

None of the above is the point. His income, employment, and social standing are none of your business. Full Stop.

[misher]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

None of the above is the point. His income, employment, and social standing are none of your business. Full Stop.

While this is true and I thank you for pointing out I am much more offended by the racial attack.

Its the equivalent of someone accusing someone who wants shorter sentences for criminals of being black. Race has no place in our debates and it was incredibly racist for him to accuse me of being Asian simply because of my views on taxation. What has become of this country.

Honestly I have lost my desire to post on this forum since it appears that racism is accepted or supported by most. Shame on most of you, this country is too good for you. I'm going to go take a break.

[travis3000]

Originally Posted by misher

While this is true and I thank you for pointing out I am much more offended by the racial attack.

Its the equivalent of someone accusing someone who wants shorter sentences for criminals of being black. Race has no place in our debates and it was incredibly racist for him to accuse me of being Asian simply because of my views on taxation. What has become of this country.

Honestly I have lost my desire to post on this forum since it appears that racism is accepted or supported by most. Shame on most of you, this country is too good for you. I'm going to go take a break.

You and I do not see eye to eye on 90% of the topics discussed in here, but I will say there's no place for racism of any kind. I honestly have no idea what the race of anyone on this site is (including you). It simply doesn't matter to me, and shouldn't matter to anyone. We are all human beings and we all deserve to be treated with respect and dignity.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by misher

While this is true and I thank you for pointing out I am much more offended by the racial attack.

Its the equivalent of someone accusing someone who wants shorter sentences for criminals of being black. Race has no place in our debates and it was incredibly racist for him to accuse me of being Asian simply because of my views on taxation. What has become of this country.

Honestly I have lost my desire to post on this forum since it appears that racism is accepted or supported by most. Shame on most of you, this country is too good for you. I'm going to go take a break.

Originally Posted by travis3000

You and I do not see eye to eye on 90% of the topics discussed in here, but I will say there's no place for racism of any kind. I honestly have no idea what the race of anyone on this site is (including you). It simply doesn't matter to me, and shouldn't matter to anyone. We are all human beings and we all deserve to be treated with respect and dignity.

IMO, misher is the one bringing race into the discussion all the time. Conversation often goes along the following lines:

Typical SSPer in this thread: "I can't help but notice that property values in Vancouver are completely out of whack with local metrics like wages and rents. Clearly there's something going on."

misher: "You racist —! Admit it, you think all Chinese are speculators and money launderers!"