Phoenix Development News (3)

[muertecaza]

Originally Posted by azliam

I guess I see if differently than you do. I really wanted Track Club to succeed. The reason for that is it would have been nice for downtown PHX to not only have an upscale club, but to tap into that Scottsdale market and hope to bring some more bodies downtown where we SHOULD have more of an urban nightlife experience than one of our suburbs has. These suburbs often pull much opportunity away from downtown PHX (I'm sure there are other factors involved as well) that it would be nice to start pulling back.

Agree that Phoenix could have used Track Club for the reasons you note. But I personally will never be disappointed by non-food/beverage retail in our little urban centers. Speaking of things the suburbs pull away from downtown, clothing shopping is almost 100% the domain of the 'burbs in Phoenix metro. I think bringing some of that downtown--even if it's a Goodwill dressed up as a used "vintage" store--is great.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

Guys, it's a city not an upscale playground for millennial to get drunk and play cornhole.

I do not think a Goodwill here will do that great for 2 other reasons aside from the riff-raff reasons I have already mentioned:

1. Phoenix is a car-centric city. This location provides no means of easy parking, loading or unloading of donated items or purchases. Unless this location is going to sell primarily clothes and small items, most people are not going to carry their stuff very far and will need to use a vehicle.

2. A micro-brewery would kill an individual Goodwill location in business and number of amount of customers/patrons. It would also add nightlife to the area which Goodwill would not do. Goodwill will close at 9pm (6pm on Sundays) leaving one of the best corners of Roosevelt Row lifeless for the remainder of the night.

[biggus diggus]

What I'm hearing is that you only want to see businesses that cater to rich people. Any sort of company you disapprove of and brings in "riff raff" is unwelcome in your little bubble?

Diversity is the root of every good city. You start discriminating against people and trying to create a theme park and it will never be good.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

What I'm hearing is that you only want to see businesses that cater to rich people. Any sort of company you disapprove of and brings in "riff raff" is unwelcome in your little bubble?

Diversity is the root of every good city. You start discriminating against people and trying to create a theme park and it will never be good.

You're completely adding words to my mouth and if you've read my earlier post, I already stated I shop Goodwill several times per week and I think a Goodwill would be better closer to the 7's, just not at a prominent corner.

Also, since when do you need to be rich to go have a beer??

[azliam]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

What I'm hearing is that you only want to see businesses that cater to rich people. Any sort of company you disapprove of and brings in "riff raff" is unwelcome in your little bubble?

Diversity is the root of every good city. You start discriminating against people and trying to create a theme park and it will never be good.

Good lord...

Last time I checked, there were just as many poor people drinking beer as there were rich people.

[gymratmanaz]

Both incarnations at Desoto have failed. Maybe having a retail spot will work. I think, if it is a nice destination with vintage and style, the area will support it. It could be a great addition. There are plenty of other locations for night clubs too. Both can and should exist together. Again, maybe the third try at this location will succeed with a different kind of business.

[biggus diggus]

Originally Posted by CrestedSaguaro

You're completely adding words to my mouth and if you've read my earlier post, I already stated I shop Goodwill several times per week and I think a Goodwill would be better closer to the 7's, just not at a prominent corner.

Also, since when do you need to be rich to go have a beer??

People who shop at thift stores out of necessity (the riff-raff) are not going to microbreweries, they're buying 12 packs at Circle K.

Am I being a bit defensive? probably. I have spent a lot of time in a lot of cities and I have a pretty good understanding of how a good one works. If you want nothing but fancy fun frilly atmospheres move to downtown Gilbert. If you want a city then let Phoenix grow organically.

[azliam]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

People who shop at thift stores out of necessity (the riff-raff) are not going to microbreweries, they're buying 12 packs at Circle K.

Am I being a bit defensive? probably. I have spent a lot of time in a lot of cities and I have a pretty good understanding of how a good one works. If you want nothing but fancy fun frilly atmospheres move to downtown Gilbert. If you want a city then let Phoenix grow organically.

Guess the middle class doesn't exist.

[azliam]

Originally Posted by muertecaza

Agree that Phoenix could have used Track Club for the reasons you note. But I personally will never be disappointed by non-food/beverage retail in our little urban centers. Speaking of things the suburbs pull away from downtown, clothing shopping is almost 100% the domain of the 'burbs in Phoenix metro. I think bringing some of that downtown--even if it's a Goodwill dressed up as a used "vintage" store--is great.

Good point. I'm wondering how much the rent at Desoto compares to a place at Arizona Center which really could use some retailers.

[biggus diggus]

Originally Posted by azliam

Guess the middle class doesn't exist.

I don't know what to make of this comment. Are you implying there are no businesses catering to the "middle class" in downtown phoenix and therefore justifying the resistance to anything that doesn't cater to the "middle class"?

[azliam]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

I don't know what to make of this comment. Are you implying there are no businesses catering to the "middle class" in downtown phoenix and therefore justifying the resistance to anything that doesn't cater to the "middle class"?

Great. Couldn't care less. You're the one who started making assumptions about millennials, rich people, AND poor people if I remember correctly. I do not remember justifying resistance to anything of the sort, but just conveyed my preference.

[ASU Diablo]

Originally Posted by Phxguy

What about the old Auto Shop building next door?

Tbh, the idea of an “urban concept” Goodwill is growing. Everyone laments the lack of shopping downtown and this could a good way to start.

Good idea about the Auto Shop. Something that did catch my eye and surprise me was that Four Peaks closed their Tap Room location in N Scottsdale (which I never liked btw). I wonder if they would ever make a play for a downtown location now that the original 8th St location is the only one open?

[biggus diggus]

Originally Posted by azliam

Great. Couldn't care less. You're the one who started making assumptions about millennials, rich people, AND poor people if I remember correctly. I do not remember justifying resistance to anything of the sort, but just conveyed my preference.

You care enough to reply to me.

I just hate this whole "it doesn't appeal to me so it has no place in my neighborhood" attitude.

Some of you are acting like NIMBYs over a thrift store. Please, get over yourselves.

[azliam]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

You care enough to reply to me.

I just hate this whole "it doesn't appeal to me so it has no place in my neighborhood" attitude.

Some of you are acting like NIMBYs over a thrift store. Please, get over yourselves.

I'm going to make a strong assumption and say that I believe most of us who post here are pretty creative individuals who want downtown to succeed. Just because a few may prefer a different establishment in a particular area than you doesn't scream that we're NIMBYs, that we have to have it our way, or see no value in any establishment taking over the lease. You're entitled to your opinion just like everyone else. I prefer more commercial space downtown and wish the buildings being built at Central Park were downtown instead, but I know it's not all about me. It doesn't mean I can't have an opinion about it. Just like we all had our opinions on what should be built at Hyatt Regency Garage. It's what we do here and we allowed to debate.

[ASU Diablo]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

You care enough to reply to me.

I just hate this whole "it doesn't appeal to me so it has no place in my neighborhood" attitude.

Some of you are acting like NIMBYs over a thrift store. Please, get over yourselves.

This is rich coming from the poster who was bitching and ranting on this very same forum about the increase of traffic near his office and complaining how the time it takes him to get to TSRA has exponentially increased over time. Or how adding permanent bicycle lanes to the Western stretch of Roosevelt was a bad idea because it would be "inconvenient" for HIM and HIS commute to the office. How the City would never do this and the wants of "many" would clearly overtake the "wants of the few"? I will give you credit though, you moved your office and it's no longer "your" backyard/neighborhood.

Dude, take a look in the mirror and stop thumbing your nose at people. You sound like a damn hypocrite.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

You care enough to reply to me.

I just hate this whole "it doesn't appeal to me so it has no place in my neighborhood" attitude.

Some of you are acting like NIMBYs over a thrift store. Please, get over yourselves.

Dude, your making up stuff that I haven't even said (like you always do).

When did I ever call a poor mom or family that walks into a thrift-store riff-raff? I'm referring to homeless that will be walking into the store and stealing clothing and leaving things laying around that should not be (dirty used clothes, needles, etc.) and I thought I made that pretty clear from the get go.

I have first hand experience with this for many, many years as I have stated twice now that I shop at Goodwill extensively. There is not a single Goodwill in Phoenix that I have never been too and I never miss sale Saturday. How many times do you actually shop at Goodwill? I'm guessing not much if you think that a Goodwill is not going to attract crime to that corner.

Originally Posted by ASU Diablo

This is rich coming from the poster who was bitching and ranting on this very same forum about the increase of traffic near his office and complaining how the time it takes him to get to TSRA has exponentially increased over time. Or how adding permanent bicycle lanes to the Western stretch of Roosevelt was a bad idea because it would be "inconvenient" for HIM and HIS commute to the office. How the City would never do this and the wants of "many" would clearly overtake the "wants of the few"? I will give you credit though, you moved your office and it's no longer "your" backyard/neighborhood.

Dude, take a look in the mirror and stop thumbing your nose at people. You sound like a damn hypocrite.

Funny. This is EXACTLY the same thing I was thinking and was going there as well and decided to keep my post more civil.

[biggus diggus]

Originally Posted by CrestedSaguaro

When did I ever call a poor mom or family that walks into a thrift-store riff-raff? I'm referring to homeless that will be walking into the store and stealing clothing and leaving things laying around that should not be (dirty used clothes, needles, etc.) and I thought I made that pretty clear from the get go.

I have first hand experience with this for many, many years as I have stated twice now that I shop at Goodwill extensively. There is not a single Goodwill in Phoenix that I have never been too and I never miss sale Saturday. How many times do you actually shop at Goodwill? I'm guessing not much if you think that a Goodwill is not going to attract crime to that corner.

You seem awfully angry that I have the opposite opinion you have. Please understand that you are talking about the downtown of a city of five million people, adding a thrift store to that downtown is not going to turn it into a cesspool of crime. Spillover from a night club (read: frequent 2AM shootings in Old Town Scottsdale) is far worse than a discarded needle IMHO. You can disagree all you want, but your vision of a city seems to be that it's some kind of Utopian suburb. People are going to urinate on the sidewalk, people are going to throw down a needle, you might see a rat. This is a city and as it becomes denser and attracts a more socioeconomically diverse population things are going to change more, get used to it.

If a retail storefront selling used clothing is causing a crime problem then enforcement should be stepped up. You can stop stupid from existing, you can only move it around or subdue it with force. The Phoenix Police Department will need to handle that.

[biggus diggus]

Originally Posted by ASU Diablo

This is rich coming from the poster who was bitching and ranting on this very same forum about the increase of traffic near his office and complaining how the time it takes him to get to TSRA has exponentially increased over time. Or how adding permanent bicycle lanes to the Western stretch of Roosevelt was a bad idea because it would be "inconvenient" for HIM and HIS commute to the office. How the City would never do this and the wants of "many" would clearly overtake the "wants of the few"? I will give you credit though, you moved your office and it's no longer "your" backyard/neighborhood.

Dude, take a look in the mirror and stop thumbing your nose at people. You sound like a damn hypocrite.

If you want to argue about this I have all day, though in the grand scheme all of what we are discussing is irrelevant. The world is going to do what the world is going to do despite what we think.

Yes, downtown became something I wanted to visit rather than be tied to. So I moved. I still own a few condos spread around between the 7's and I will continue to buy in Garfield and Oakland, that won't change. I just don't want to be there anymore unless it's for recreation.

Yes, I think the bike lanes were a bad idea and I still do. That has nothing to do with MY commute since I do not use Roosevelt on a regular basis. My office was on McKinley and I traveled 7th Avenue southbound and turned left on McKinley not Roosevelt. My objection to the bike lanes on Roosevelt is that they have the potential to cause traffic to pile up while people make left turns with no center lane. On the few occasions I did use Roosevelt and made a left turn on 4th Avenue heading southbound I felt like an enormous inconvenience. I am waiting for traffic to clear while I watch cars behind me pile up. Exactly what I expected to happen. You want to talk about the needs of the many? The MANY drivers needs outweigh the five nerds who ride a bike and think they need a bike lane on a small street like Roosvelt. It's not McDowell. And I'm not ambivalent to the needs of cyclists, I ride a lot.

I understand your point of view, but I disagree with it.

[fawd]

It's very interesting that the best tenant they could find for such a high-profile location is a Goodwill.


There obviously wasn't much interest in the location. I'd also assume the building's owner/management wasn't asking for an astronomical price per foot either.


Shame.

[azsunsurfer]

I am enjoying being a spectator regarding this discussion.

One thing I learned from 08 is that when Goodwill snapped up those empty anchor retail spaces, they haven't given them up. We'll see in the long run if rents rise enough for them to reconsider their location(s). So if they do set up in DeSoto, they will definately be a long term tenant. I personally prefer a rotating line of restaurants and clubs.