The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by corynv

I do agree with that. But the biggest hurdle in doing that is getting a 2nd tunnel under Dow's lake/Rideau Canal. and there doesn't seem to be much political will in doing that right now.

Is there an operational need for it with the current frequencies? At what point does it become a need?

[Dengler Avenue]

Current frequency? That’s the very thing we’re trying to improve, and without double tracking it’s impossible to improve the frequency.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Current frequency? That’s the very thing we’re trying to improve, and without double tracking it’s impossible to improve the frequency.

if the line was double tracked the entire length, except for the tunnel, how much would the frequency be?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

if the line was double tracked the entire length, except for the tunnel, how much would the frequency be?

The City has never divulged that info, but if we currently have 3 passing tracks over 8 kilometers for a 12 minute frequency, what sort of frequency would be achievable with only 1 kilometer of single tracking with the tunnel and Rideau River Bridge?

If we do very rough math; I believe it takes about 15 minutes end-to-end at the moment. With double track and two additional stations, we'll say 16 minutes, for an average of 30 kilometers an hour. To pass one kilometer, that's 2 minutes, so 4 minute frequency. Give an extra 2 minutes to be safe, and a conservative estimate would be 6 minute frequencies if we double tracked everything but the tunnel and bridge.

[ClaytonA]

Nice seeing YEG updates above.

In other YEG news the Metro Line Extension contractor has been announced:

https://mailchi.mp/edmonton/metro-nw-lrt-to-blatchford-moving-forward?e=a6c55b64dd

... In March, the City selected PCL Construction to deliver the 1.6-km expansion from NAIT to Blatchford. With the agreement finalized, PCL has started providing pre-construction services and the project is on track to start construction this summer. ...

https://www.edmonton.ca/projects_plans/transit/nw-lrt.aspx

I hope the city is hedging the currency risk on these projects. The other shortlisted contractors were Graham and Ellis Don.


The other project's procurement, Valley Line West, is to be finalized by Oct 2020, for a construction start 2021.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The City has never divulged that info, but if we currently have 3 passing tracks over 8 kilometers for a 12 minute frequency, what sort of frequency would be achievable with only 1 kilometer of single tracking with the tunnel and Rideau River Bridge?

If we do very rough math; I believe it takes about 15 minutes end-to-end at the moment. With double track and two additional stations, we'll say 16 minutes, for an average of 30 kilometers an hour. To pass one kilometer, that's 2 minutes, so 4 minute frequency. Give an extra 2 minutes to be safe, and a conservative estimate would be 6 minute frequencies if we double tracked everything but the tunnel and bridge.

6 is actually okay, given that it used to be the frequency of both branches of Canada Line.

[foolworm]

Originally Posted by ClaytonA

In other YEG news the Metro Line Extension contractor has been announced[...] I hope the city is hedging the currency risk on these projects. The other shortlisted contractors were Graham and Ellis Don.

Nice to see this extension moving forward - it has been overshadowed by Valley Line West. I do wish the project had incorporated some grade separations proposed for the existing line though, the alternate signalling system is the only upgrade. What do you mean by currency risk though? All three shortlisted companies are Canadian.



On the other hand, has anyone compiled a list of dedicated busways (including bus lanes) in Canada? Information on the subject is surprisingly sparse, no doubt due to BRT and the vagueness of the term muddying the waters. Off the top of my head I can think of the following:

- Ottawa's Transitways
- Calgary's International Ave Transitway
- York region's Viva Rapidways
- Winnipeg's Southeast Transitway
- Quebec's Metrobus corridors

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The City has never divulged that info, but if we currently have 3 passing tracks over 8 kilometers for a 12 minute frequency, what sort of frequency would be achievable with only 1 kilometer of single tracking with the tunnel and Rideau River Bridge?

If we do very rough math; I believe it takes about 15 minutes end-to-end at the moment. With double track and two additional stations, we'll say 16 minutes, for an average of 30 kilometers an hour. To pass one kilometer, that's 2 minutes, so 4 minute frequency. Give an extra 2 minutes to be safe, and a conservative estimate would be 6 minute frequencies if we double tracked everything but the tunnel and bridge.

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

6 is actually okay, given that it used to be the frequency of both branches of Canada Line.

Agreed. 6 minute frequency is pretty good. If the city did that, and had enough trains to do it, that would be a great improvement.Then once demand warrants a new tunnel, the city could build a second single bore tunnel while keeping the line running.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by foolworm

Nice to see this extension moving forward - it has been overshadowed by Valley Line West. I do wish the project had incorporated some grade separations proposed for the existing line though, the alternate signalling system is the only upgrade. What do you mean by currency risk though? All three shortlisted companies are Canadian.



On the other hand, has anyone compiled a list of dedicated busways (including bus lanes) in Canada? Information on the subject is surprisingly sparse, no doubt due to BRT and the vagueness of the term muddying the waters. Off the top of my head I can think of the following:

- Ottawa's Transitways
- Calgary's International Ave Transitway
- York region's Viva Rapidways
- Winnipeg's Southeast Transitway
- Quebec's Metrobus corridors

Gatineau's Rapibus

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by foolworm

Nice to see this extension moving forward - it has been overshadowed by Valley Line West. I do wish the project had incorporated some grade separations proposed for the existing line though, the alternate signalling system is the only upgrade. What do you mean by currency risk though? All three shortlisted companies are Canadian.



On the other hand, has anyone compiled a list of dedicated busways (including bus lanes) in Canada? Information on the subject is surprisingly sparse, no doubt due to BRT and the vagueness of the term muddying the waters. Off the top of my head I can think of the following:

- Ottawa's Transitways
- Calgary's International Ave Transitway
- York region's Viva Rapidways
- Winnipeg's Southeast Transitway
- Quebec's Metrobus corridors

Toronto's York U busway.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

6 is actually okay, given that it used to be the frequency of both branches of Canada Line.

I think anyone using the line would be ecstatic with such a frequency. That will likely be the frequency of the Confederation Line branches, west of Lincoln Fields, once Stage 2 is complete. At the moment (pre-Covid), when it works, Confederation has 3.5 minute frequencies at rush and 5 minutes outside of rush.

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Agreed. 6 minute frequency is pretty good. If the city did that, and had enough trains to do it, that would be a great improvement.Then once demand warrants a new tunnel, the city could build a second single bore tunnel while keeping the line running.

The ship has sailed. The City decided to instead double the length of the platform as part of Stage 2 Trillium. Two of the old trains (Alstom Cordia Lint 41) will run on the Airport spur, while the others will be coupled for the main line. New trains added to the fleet (Stadler Flirts) will be full length (ie. can't be uncoupled).

Unless the ridership is far higher than anticipated, I don't see any further doubling of tracks beyond what is planned as part of Stage 2 for a while.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I think anyone using the line would be ecstatic with such a frequency. That will likely be the frequency of the Confederation Line branches, west of Lincoln Fields, once Stage 2 is complete. At the moment (pre-Covid), when it works, Confederation has 3.5 minute frequencies at rush and 5 minutes outside of rush.

The ship has sailed. The City decided to instead double the length of the platform as part of Stage 2 Trillium. Two of the old trains (Alstom Cordia Lint 41) will run on the Airport spur, while the others will be coupled for the main line. New trains added to the fleet (Stadler Flirts) will be full length (ie. can't be uncoupled).

Unless the ridership is far higher than anticipated, I don't see any further doubling of tracks beyond what is planned as part of Stage 2 for a while.

The ship only sails when something is done to prevent it. I'd say the ship is still in port, but not heading out this time.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by ClaytonA

Nice seeing YEG updates above.

In other YEG news the Metro Line Extension contractor has been announced:

https://mailchi.mp/edmonton/metro-nw-lrt-to-blatchford-moving-forward?e=a6c55b64dd



https://www.edmonton.ca/projects_plans/transit/nw-lrt.aspx

I hope the city is hedging the currency risk on these projects. The other shortlisted contractors were Graham and Ellis Don.


The other project's procurement, Valley Line West, is to be finalized by Oct 2020, for a construction start 2021.

The way that the tracks cross the intersection on the approach to Castle Downs station makes me nervous. Same with it's weave back into the median immediately after Castle Downs station. Is there a transit priority lighting system in place for the intersection cross? And will the weave back into the median after Castle Downs have barriers for vehicles?

[ssiguy]

Mississauga has it's excellent 18km Transitway most of which is completely grade separated. London should be starting construction o n it's new BRT next year.

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[wave46]

The wonders of Google and free time have allowed me to puzzle over some ways to get across Canada. I've considered bus and rail.

As Greyhound has given up national bus service, I've kludged together an itinerary from various bus providers.

Bus
Maritime Bus: Halifax - Quebec City
Orleans Express: Quebec City - Montreal
Greyhound: Montreal - Ottawa - Sudbury
Ontario Northland: Sudbury - Thunder Bay
Kaspar: Thunder Bay - Winnipeg
(Can't seem to provide a link from Winnipeg to Saskatchewan - I used a flight to connect the cities)
Rider Express: Saskatoon - Edmonton
Red Arrow: Edmonton - Calgary
Rider Express: Calgary - Vancouver

The price was $850-900 all said and done. Given the disjointed nature of the trip (multiple services not timed for connections) and I'd guess it would take one 6-8 days.

Via Rail
Halifax - Montreal: The Ocean
Montreal - Toronto: The Corridor
Toronto - Vancouver: The Canadian

Again, this comes to $800+ when I priced it out. Again, a complete trip would take about 7 days.

As a comparison, driving takes about ~60 hours/2.5 days straight (as per Google) and a flight about 10 hours and cost a similar amount (albeit with more variability)

Mostly, this kind of confirms what everybody pretty much already knows. Buses and rail service are great for journeys within a few hundred kilometres of a destination. Once you get beyond that, the time savings going by air are simply too significant to ignore. If you value your time, the costs of not working also add up too.

The labour costs of long-haul bus and rail travel begin to outweigh the capital costs and fuel expenditures of air travel on long segments.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by wave46

The wonders of Google and free time have allowed me to puzzle over some ways to get across Canada. I've considered bus and rail.

As Greyhound has given up national bus service, I've kludged together an itinerary from various bus providers.

Bus
Maritime Bus: Halifax - Quebec City
Orleans Express: Quebec City - Montreal
Greyhound: Montreal - Ottawa - Sudbury
Ontario Northland: Sudbury - Thunder Bay
Kaspar: Thunder Bay - Winnipeg
(Can't seem to provide a link from Winnipeg to Saskatchewan - I used a flight to connect the cities)
Rider Express: Saskatoon - Edmonton
Red Arrow: Edmonton - Calgary
Rider Express: Calgary - Vancouver

The price was $850-900 all said and done. Given the disjointed nature of the trip (multiple services not timed for connections) and I'd guess it would take one 6-8 days.

Via Rail
Halifax - Montreal: The Ocean
Montreal - Toronto: The Corridor
Toronto - Vancouver: The Canadian

Again, this comes to $800+ when I priced it out. Again, a complete trip would take about 7 days.

As a comparison, driving takes about ~60 hours/2.5 days straight (as per Google) and a flight about 10 hours and cost a similar amount (albeit with more variability)

Mostly, this kind of confirms what everybody pretty much already knows. Buses and rail service are great for journeys within a few hundred kilometres of a destination. Once you get beyond that, the time savings going by air are simply too significant to ignore. If you value your time, the costs of not working also add up too.

The labour costs of long-haul bus and rail travel begin to outweigh the capital costs and fuel expenditures of air travel on long segments.

A sizable chunk of the Prairies no longer has intercity bus service.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Acajack

A sizable chunk of the Prairies no longer has intercity bus service.

It really seemed to break down interprovincially.

Getting from Point A to B within a province was generally easy enough, but getting from province to province could be challenging. The Atlantic provinces were better as they had a coordinated provider.

When I look at the picture at large it makes sense though. In the larger provinces, one only travels within to the next major destination, typically the largest city within the province.

The reasons for going out of province on a bus were somewhat limited, except if the cities were close (say, Ottawa-Montreal) or very big. (Montreal-Toronto)

With the advent of relatively inexpensive airfare, the case for long distance bus travel between far flung cities falls apart completely.

[JHikka]

The only bus trips I could manage were between Ottawa-Montreal and between NB's three cities. Anything longer than two hours on a bus is absolutely miserable.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by ClaytonA

Nice seeing YEG updates above.

In other YEG news the Metro Line Extension contractor has been announced:

https://mailchi.mp/edmonton/metro-nw-lrt-to-blatchford-moving-forward?e=a6c55b64dd



https://www.edmonton.ca/projects_plans/transit/nw-lrt.aspx

I hope the city is hedging the currency risk on these projects. The other shortlisted contractors were Graham and Ellis Don.


The other project's procurement, Valley Line West, is to be finalized by Oct 2020, for a construction start 2021.

Edmonton's doing a great job continuously building. Valley South is u/c, Valley North at the RFP phase and Metro NW ready for u/c.Any development coming with the NW extension? What's going on with the signaling system?