Long term repercussions from Covid-19 what will they be?

[lio45]

Originally Posted by someone123

A "ranking of universities" doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It depends on what you are studying, what kind of student you are, and what stage you are at in your studies.

Exactly. It's extremely domain-centric.

[Proof Sheet]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

well now, I have my opinions, which are like —, because everybody has got one

No doubt the top three are
McGill
Toronto (depending on your ranking system, could swap spots with McGill)
UBC

After that, one gets into the weeds of fierce debates.

In no particular order, the next bunch would include the following:

UofAlberta, McMaster, UofMontreal, Western, Queen's, University of Waterloo, University of Ottawa, University of Calgary, Laval, Simon Fraser, University of Saskatchewan, maybe University of Manitoba, then maybe, U Vic.

Care to give us your bottom 10 or 15 canadian universities, the so called degree mills

My father taught at one you have commended and he recommended that I go elsewhere even though tuition would have been free. Probably a good idea as my program of interest wasn't really offered at his university.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Horseshit, big steaming load of.

I don't know how true the actual action is, but it certainly is false that it hasn't been complained about.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by someone123

The average undergrad doesn't necessarily get a better experience at a larger institution with more research going on. I think the whole concept of university "prestige" which is based mostly off of research money that then somehow rubs off onto first or second year students in an 800 person lecture hall is silly, and the whole system could use an overhaul. On top of the misaligned incentives when it comes to teaching students there's the replication crisis and the explosion of dubious non-scientific fields of study.

I'd go as far as to recommend doing your undergrad degree at whatever your local university is if the trade off is that you can live at your parents while doing it (which means either 1) no need for a job = more time to focus on your studies, or 2) basically no debt upon graduating).

(Unless you're in a field where people usually stop at a bachelor's degree, then yeah, then maybe that's not good advice. But it wasn't the case for me and my friends.)

[lio45]

Originally Posted by milomilo

I don't know how true the actual action is, but it certainly is false that it hasn't been complained about.

It's been complained about enough - and for the record, I have even witnessed some of that complaining first-hand over the past 13 years on this forum - that the program was eventually put on hold, and that's not because the Quebec government started to develop a dislike of interest-free loans.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by lio45

It's been complained about enough - and for the record, I have even witnessed some of that complaining first-hand over the past 13 years on this forum - that the program was eventually put on hold, and that's not because the Quebec government started to develop a dislike of interest-free loans.

I definitely didn't like the sound of it and I'm strongly against provinces being able to decide immigration policy.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by lio45

I'd go as far as to recommend doing your undergrad degree at whatever your local university is if the trade off is that you can live at your parents while doing it (which means either 1) no need for a job = more time to focus on your studies, or 2) basically no debt upon graduating).

It depends somewhat on the situation but in general I agree.

This is somewhat controversial but my cynical view is that there's a continuum of validity in educational fields, with harder science and engineering near the top and stuff like gender studies and maybe management near the bottom. The less scientific fields are based mostly on prestige and social pressures, and are a lot like medieval priesthood structures. In the less scientific fields, the prestige of the institutions matters more. In the more scientific fields, objective results matter more and the institution matters less. So if you are going to be very skilled in a technical area you can go wherever for schooling as long as they can teach you what you need to know, but if you're instead in a prestige-based field you should pick the most prestigious place.

Justin Trudeau for example should have chosen the most prestigious school possible because he didn't develop much in the way of objective technical skills. For him it's all about his network of contacts and credentialism. He took literature at McGill.

There is something to be said for the quality of your peers and it might be a little better at a more prestigious school, because the more skilled students have more options of where to go, but I think this is somewhat overstated. You will find a lot of self-sorting at many institutions by difficulty of the coursework. The lazy kids don't make it to 4th year math courses, they're in underwater basketweaving.

We often hear about the income premium of kids who go to university or better universities, but we don't hear a lot about the qualified ones who didn't choose the Ivy Leagues and the like.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by lio45

I'd go as far as to recommend doing your undergrad degree at whatever your local university is if the trade off is that you can live at your parents while doing it (which means either 1) no need for a job = more time to focus on your studies, or 2) basically no debt upon graduating).

(Unless you're in a field where people usually stop at a bachelor's degree, then yeah, then maybe that's not good advice. But it wasn't the case for me and my friends.)

That was what I did, long, long ago. It didn’t seem to me at that time that it made any difference where in Canada you did your undergrad degree (BA). I might have had a different perspective had I decided to study architecture or engineering or something.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by lio45

I'd go as far as to recommend doing your undergrad degree at whatever your local university is if the trade off is that you can live at your parents while doing it (which means either 1) no need for a job = more time to focus on your studies, or 2) basically no debt upon graduating).

(Unless you're in a field where people usually stop at a bachelor's degree, then yeah, then maybe that's not good advice. But it wasn't the case for me and my friends.)

Maybe I should get you to talk to my daughter, since the deal we made is she's paying for school and we are paying for housing lol. I even said we'd pay for school if she went to Western, but she wants to experience living away from home. Of course, who knows what's happening with school in the fall anyway, she might yet be living at home lol.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

That was what I did, long, long ago. It didn’t seem to me at that time that it made any difference where in Canada you did your undergrad degree (BA). I might have had a different perspective had I decided to study architecture or engineering or something.

What's a BA? (Bachelor of Arts?)

That's what you studied? Interesting.

I did the same thing - less long ago than you. Probably more extreme than most: a couple years after graduating (in my hometown), I hadn't even moved out of my mom's basement yet I already owned a sizable mixed commercial/residential real estate portfolio in the city's downtown at that point.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

That was what I did, long, long ago.

How long ago exactly?

I find it amusing that you chose that username for yourself when you joined over 12 years ago. If you were 68 years old then, you're 80 now... I think my dad would object to where you set your "old timer" bar! (Though my grandpa, at 93, would pretty much have to accept to qualify.)

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by lio45

What's a BA? (Bachelor of Arts?)

That's what you studied? Interesting.

I did the same thing - less long ago than you. Probably more extreme than most: a couple years after graduating (in my hometown), I hadn't even moved out of my mom's basement yet I already owned a sizable mixed commercial/residential real estate portfolio in the city's downtown at that point.

Yes - Double major in French and Spanish Literature (those were different times!). Class of ‘78.

[WarrenC12]

In many higher end circles it's about who you know as well. You're going to get into higher end frat houses and whatnot at the bigger schools. Meet the rich kids who will inherit pieces of their family business regardless.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Maybe I should get you to talk to my daughter, since the deal we made is she's paying for school and we are paying for housing lol. I even said we'd pay for school if she went to Western, but she wants to experience living away from home. Of course, who knows what's happening with school in the fall anyway, she might yet be living at home lol.

I could probably convince her that "living away from home" isn't really that big a deal - she'll have her whole life to experience that. It's nothing special to us adults.

Graduating debt-free though, now that's something...

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Maybe I should get you to talk to my daughter, since the deal we made is she's paying for school and we are paying for housing lol. I even said we'd pay for school if she went to Western, but she wants to experience living away from home. Of course, who knows what's happening with school in the fall anyway, she might yet be living at home lol.

I know someone who's a prof at a major U.S. university and she said they're planning a hybrid system for the fall. They're doing a lot of Zoom stuff now and it sounds like a major PITA.

Does anyone know how this working out for students who are in science programs that have a lot of lab work?

[someone123]

Originally Posted by lio45

I could probably convince her that "living away from home" isn't really that big a deal - she'll have her whole life to experience that. It's nothing special to us adults.

Graduating debt-free though, now that's something...

There's more to it than this if you go to a good school though. You can live on campus surrounded by students, walk to your classes in minutes, it's easy to make lots of friends, and there are lots of extracurricular activities. Moving into your own apartment after graduating isn't the same. I did feel like I missed out on this somewhat because of my commute and jobs, and there were lots of times that I didn't appreciate having to get up at 6:30 to go to lectures. However, it was nice not graduating with debt.

I think knowing what my income is now I was actually too conservative with finances when I was younger and I am probably guilty of the same thing now (though that conservative planning was all relatively pandemic-proof). But it's easy to look back with the benefit of hindsight.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Yes - Double major in French and Spanish Literature (those were different times!). Class of ‘78.

It's what I thought my dad, who wouldn't admit he's yet actually "old" as of today, was already teaching (French, at Concordia - long before MolsonEx's time) while you were still in high school.

You still master those two languages well, I would assume?

And what do you do with that type of degree? Government/Politics? As others have said, it's basically a networking degree, from a practical PoV.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by someone123

There's more to it than this if you go to a good school though. You can live on campus surrounded by students, walk to your classes in minutes, it's easy to make lots of friends, and there are lots of extracurricular activities.

It was the other way around for me... I was one of the only "locals" in my cohort - everyone else was from all over the province and thus had no friends here when they started (though they all made some eventually) - so I had a ton of good high school era friends I was still seeing regularly.

I was actually at a bit of an academic disadvantage because of that - I would be unable to resist the siren song of social events with my old group of friends, who were mostly at that point either doing lesser/easier bachelor's or else already on the job market, while "my competition" in the classroom would focus on their studies (having nothing else to do in their tiny student residence room and not knowing anyone in this city).



(that said, while I still see my high school group once in a while, my best and closest friends in post-university adulthood are all from university.)

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Proof Sheet

Care to give us your bottom 10 or 15 canadian universities, the so called degree mills

University College of the North in Manitoba is probably one of the more realistic universities you'll encounter in that regard... it exists basically to give people from Northern Manitoba the opportunity to attend university closer to home, knowing that many if not most would not otherwise go given that it would mean moving hundreds of kilometres to attend.

The university makes no promises that a degree from UCN will allow you to conquer the world or whatever universities typically tend to suggest... but if you want to be a nurse in Flin Flon or a schoolteacher in Wasagamack, UCN will get you there.

I suspect that it's these types of remote universities that are focused on local students and labour market needs that would probably fill out the bottom of the rankings.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by milomilo

I definitely didn't like the sound of it and I'm strongly against provinces being able to decide immigration policy.

I am afraid it's here to stay.

The way the feds ran immigration during the 20th century was so detrimental to certain parts of the country and also certain demographics, that provincial involvement is here to stay. Odds are it will increase.

As they say, "from my cold dead hands".