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  #7141  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2020, 6:47 PM
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Since we've all been talking about our opinions on the impact of Covid, I just wanted to say I think the way our government has been going about this whole thing, the cure might be worse than the disease. However, Utah does have a very stable economy, and with Gov. Herbie yesterday saying that Utah already had an action plan in place to reopen the economy, I think our bounceback will be fairly quick. I read an article in the NYT that said that economists were predicting that the economic downturn would be 4x worse than the '08 recession, but the bounceback would be "unprecedented." I'd like to think that the downturn wouldn't be that bad. Fingers crossed.
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  #7142  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2020, 6:48 PM
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I've also been meaning to ask if anyone has any new or relevant information on the Priskos project, the APS project, or the Wasatch Properties project. They've all been mentioned previously, but it doesn't seem like ther is any concrete plans in place.
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  #7143  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2020, 6:57 PM
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Thank you, Msbutah! Please keep it up.
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  #7144  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2020, 6:59 PM
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One more thing. Sorry if I'm being annoying. Does anyone have information on projects going on in West Jordan, by chance?
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  #7145  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2020, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jbash View Post
Since we've all been talking about our opinions on the impact of Covid, I just wanted to say I think the way our government has been going about this whole thing, the cure might be worse than the disease. However, Utah does have a very stable economy, and with Gov. Herbie yesterday saying that Utah already had an action plan in place to reopen the economy, I think our bounceback will be fairly quick. I read an article in the NYT that said that economists were predicting that the economic downturn would be 4x worse than the '08 recession, but the bounceback would be "unprecedented." I'd like to think that the downturn wouldn't be that bad. Fingers crossed.
The cure won't ever be worse than the disease. We've taken drastic measures already and even then, the death toll from this pandemic in the United States over just the last month is pushing 30,000. Had we taken even more lax measures, the amount dead would be even more staggering.

Hell, the delay by many governors, and by the federal government, to move on this and push stay at home orders earlier, likely resulted in 15,000+ more deaths over that same span.

It 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 that the economy is taking a hit but you know what 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 more? An entire healthcare system collapsing because they're inundated with patients. And that's likely what would have happened (as kind of happened in New York) had we not taken such extreme measures in many instances.
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  #7146  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2020, 12:53 AM
Blah_Amazing Blah_Amazing is offline
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The cure won't ever be worse than the disease. We've taken drastic measures already and even then, the death toll from this pandemic in the United States over just the last month is pushing 30,000. Had we taken even more lax measures, the amount dead would be even more staggering.

Hell, the delay by many governors, and by the federal government, to move on this and push stay at home orders earlier, likely resulted in 15,000+ more deaths over that same span.

It 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 that the economy is taking a hit but you know what 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 more? An entire healthcare system collapsing because they're inundated with patients. And that's likely what would have happened (as kind of happened in New York) had we not taken such extreme measures in many instances.
I think there is an argument to just letting it run its course. Yes, more people would have died (and I am not minimizing that (both of my parents are boomers, and are therefore in the 'at risk' category)) over the course of a month or so, but the economy would be relatively stable otherwise. I mean, they are projecting 25 - 30% unemployment, a 40% decline in GDP (absolutely catastrophic) and the economy not really returning to normal for another 3-5 years, and it would likely take the entire decade to fully recover, if ever. Unemployment will stay above ten percent for a minimum of a year, likely longer. hundreds of thousands of small businesses will go under, and large companies are learning they can work with less people. The ongoing retailpocalypse will hit overdrive, with likely many stores and malls permanently closing and laying off their workers over the next year.

This will likely destroy tens of millions of Americans' economic prospects and lives. I've been seeing more and more talk of 'revolution' which I would normally dismiss as typical internet stuff, but I think we will likely see potential increases in mass violence and instability in months and years to come if the recovery is slow. Especially since some places may recover, while others further decline and collapse. I suspect several cities will face bankruptcy and ruin, similar to what happened to Detroit, but over a faster period of time due to their overleveraged status.

Worst case scenario: The US is heading for decade or multidecade depression that will result in millions losing their homes, collapses in home values, tens of millions losing their jobs permanently, the collapse of several major and tons of small cities and towns, never-ending government bailouts, the slow decline of the dollar, and a significant portion of the population forced to file for bankruptcy which will negatively impact them for many years to come. I don't think these things can be easily dismissed.
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  #7147  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2020, 1:55 AM
Utah_Dave Utah_Dave is offline
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As the days progress and our case count stays relatively flat in Utah I’m beginning to become more and more positive about our situation her in Utah. This bolds well for our local economy. The National economy looks to be in a tougher spot then our local economy which is great as long as we can be vigilant. I don’t really think you can let this virus run it’s course due to how quickly it spreads. If you compare the fear and economic damage or NY and Utah its pretty much night and day. I have family in NY and it’s not a good situation there both economically and mentally. They are definitely living at a higher daily stress level overall in my opinion. The fear of this virus is what will damage this economy. If we can keep the case count low and fear in check we will ride this out. A large spike in case count will shutter the economy here. Stick to the plan peoples.

Also, CCH construction site is looking pretty good

I’ll try to start taking photos as I can
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  #7148  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2020, 2:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Blah_Amazing View Post
I think there is an argument to just letting it run its course. Yes, more people would have died (and I am not minimizing that (both of my parents are boomers, and are therefore in the 'at risk' category)) over the course of a month or so, but the economy would be relatively stable otherwise. I mean, they are projecting 25 - 30% unemployment, a 40% decline in GDP (absolutely catastrophic) and the economy not really returning to normal for another 3-5 years, and it would likely take the entire decade to fully recover, if ever. Unemployment will stay above ten percent for a minimum of a year, likely longer. hundreds of thousands of small businesses will go under, and large companies are learning they can work with less people. The ongoing retailpocalypse will hit overdrive, with likely many stores and malls permanently closing and laying off their workers over the next year.

This will likely destroy tens of millions of Americans' economic prospects and lives. I've been seeing more and more talk of 'revolution' which I would normally dismiss as typical internet stuff, but I think we will likely see potential increases in mass violence and instability in months and years to come if the recovery is slow. Especially since some places may recover, while others further decline and collapse. I suspect several cities will face bankruptcy and ruin, similar to what happened to Detroit, but over a faster period of time due to their overleveraged status.

Worst case scenario: The US is heading for decade or multidecade depression that will result in millions losing their homes, collapses in home values, tens of millions losing their jobs permanently, the collapse of several major and tons of small cities and towns, never-ending government bailouts, the slow decline of the dollar, and a significant portion of the population forced to file for bankruptcy which will negatively impact them for many years to come. I don't think these things can be easily dismissed.
Are you kidding me?

Do you know what else would lead to economic collapse? The overwhelming of the entire healthcare system all over the country because we let it "run its course".

If there's anything that has better exposed the extreme systemic rot that is destroying this country from within, it's this pandemic. And yet people STILL bury their heads in the sand and pretend that unfettered capitalism is the solution.

There are a lot of differences between now and the last major pandemic we had, but one thing that can easily carry over is the fact that the cities that enacted stronger social distancing measures in 1918 came out the other side BETTER economically. You know why? Because if we open it up to early, it would just lead to a second wave of cases that might be even worse than the first wave. Businesses being closed is bad, but businesses opening up too soon and then having to close again is even worse.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020...TSus1y1hXn8VtzRMPUJpeKCIO14dyYDe17Cyn-0k

Sure, a lot of people are losing their jobs now. But many of them should be able to get their jobs back later. Some sectors will be hit harder than others and many of them won't. But the risk that comes with letting it runs its course is higher. The death toll wouldn't just be higher, it would be FAR higher. Like, astronomically higher. We're talking in the millions as opposed to the tens of thousands. Young healthy people would even be dying more because there wouldn't be enough medical services available to them. Believe it or not, those young healthy people can still get it bad enough to be hospitalized. It wouldn't just be the immunocompromised and elderly that would suffer at that point. It would be all of us.

It's absolutely disgusting to me that people would suggest letting people die for the sake of our economy. The older I get, the more I realize that capitalism really encourages and rewards the absolute worst tendencies of humanity. And yes, I'm making this political.
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  #7149  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2020, 7:59 AM
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Hey guys, this exact conversation/argument about covid 19 is plastered all over literally every form of social media, news outlet, and everyday conversation. 24/7. Please keep it out of skyscraper page unless it’s directly related. Don’t respond to the previous arguments... this topic blows up so fast so let’s curb it early.
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  #7150  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2020, 2:58 PM
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I think it's pretty impressive how much construction is still going on downtown, and in the metro as a whole, given current circumstances. I appreciate that BuildingSaltLake article and the webcams for keeping us apprised. I have no doubt that some projects in the planning stages will be postponed or even cancelled, but it appears those already under construction are going to stay that way, at least for the time being.
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  #7151  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2020, 9:38 PM
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  #7152  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2020, 3:53 PM
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Agreed. And even though games are on Sundays, every home game would be a guaranteed sellout. So hope this happens.
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  #7153  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2020, 3:57 PM
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By the way, and I know this doesn't have much to do with the content of the forum, but did you guys hear about what the West Jordan city government is doing? It's pretty sad to hear. I know a lot of people who work for the city, and a bunch of employees are being asked if they are willing to resign because of budget issues.
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  #7154  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2020, 6:57 AM
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I love that rendering and its water-color style. The only thing I would change is where the trains stop. (They need to stop below-grade just west of the Rio Grande Depot. )

I took my Rio Grande Depot development plan (see the links in my signature line) to the Salt Lake City Development subreddit, and got one more talking point to use, and this rendering of downtown illustrates this new talking point perfectly:

The Rio Grande depot was designed to be a hub. If it isn't acting as a hub, it is acting as a roadblock, completely severing 300 South. There is no easy way around the depot except to go to either 200 or 400 South, and with SLC blocks being as big as they are, this is kind of a big deal.

Any efforts to build up Salt Lake Central Station and its neighborhood have been blocked, in part, by the physical barrier that is the Rio Grande depot. So much so that a few years ago someone actually proposed running a streetcar line THROUGH the depot itself, which gave us this amazing rendering:


Obviously its a non-starter, but it shows the desperation in our planners to connect the new developments with the rest of the city.

There are three things we can do about this barrier:

1) Deal with it, and grow the rest of our lives with Central Station and that neighborhood blocked from the rest of the city, like the proverbial ax blade that got surrounded by the growing tree trunk.

2) Tear it down. Reconnect 300 South and link Central Station to the rest of the city.

3) Give up on the current Central Station and make the original hub a hub again. Make the Rio Grande Depot the new Central Station for UTA, buses, Amtrak, and everything. Instead of needing to get around the Rio Grande in order to reach your train, the Rio Grande depot is where you will catch it.

Obviously I'm in favor of option 3.
Option #3 hands down.
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  #7155  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2020, 3:58 PM
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SevenO2

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  #7156  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2020, 4:05 PM
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I like this image better than the nighttime ones that we have seen before.
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  #7157  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2020, 4:53 PM
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That new TRAX stop at 650 S Main is going to be great for that area. Lots of good stuff happening there.
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Last edited by Atlas; Apr 21, 2020 at 5:05 PM.
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  #7158  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2020, 10:48 PM
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Is funding for that station already allocated? I'm worried that transit ridership is going to take a pretty significant long-term hit from the pandemic and that transit funding will see a decrease in return.
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  #7159  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2020, 2:12 AM
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Is funding for that station already allocated? I'm worried that transit ridership is going to take a pretty significant long-term hit from the pandemic and that transit funding will see a decrease in return.
The station is being primarily paid for by Salt Lake City. They have already funded between 75% and 85% of the cost. I think that the City will end up covering the remaining costs. With the nearby developments, the coming increase in taxes would be more than enough to cover the last remaining amount.
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  #7160  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2020, 3:04 AM
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This would be badass for SLC for a minute. Unfortunately the Vegas Raiders concept is a mess, been saying that since this disaster was announced. Worst move in NFL history and a stain on the league. Mark/Al Davis ponzi scheme that just failed. Hospitality is dead. Again. Vegas will be tumbleweeds. Again. . But then again I'm an Oakland homer. Nobody taking about how one of the great industrial cites of the West lost their Bball and Football teams in less than a year. I'm not bitter. Sniff.
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