The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[logan5]

Another option for relief for Canada Line would be an extension of the Expo Line from Waterfront Station. You could connect at VCC Station (Millennium Line), or tunnel up Main Street to connect at Broadway. This set up would also provide relief for the Expo Line at super busy Commercial Broadway, whereas an Arbutus Line would not. For that kind of money though, you could build a true BRT along Arbutus.

[Chadillaccc]

Here's a map of the likely path the Green Line will take through downtown, but the council vote has been postponed due to the pandemic. It will be June at the earliest by the time we have a decision.




Council vote on Green Line's downtown path delayed due to COVID-19
Madeline Smith | April 10, 2020 | Calgary Herald

City council’s final decision on the Green Line’s path through Calgary’s core is being pushed back yet again, with the vote moved to at least June as COVID-19 throws a wrench in plans for more public engagement.

Coun. Shane Keating, who chairs council’s Green Line committee, said Thursday that the April 23 committee meeting, where officials were set to present a final recommendation on the downtown section of the LRT expansion, will be moved to early June.

It’s the latest delay for a decision that has seen its deadline change several times over the past five months.

But Keating said that over the next two months, the city will still issue a request for proposals for the LRT cars and the Green Line’s south leg from Ramsay to Shepard. That will get the process of hiring companies to make the train cars and build the south section of LRT track while the city works through some of the trouble spots in the core.

“If we don’t release that now, then it delays it even more. And we have to be post-COVID-19 ready with putting this out,” Keating said. “The south section will have about 12,000 indirect jobs and 8,000 direct jobs. We have to be absolutely ready with getting the economy back on the track and that’s why this Green Line project is so vital.”

The Ward 12 councillor said if the city begins the proposal process soon, construction on the south section of the Green Line could start in early 2021.

“We are moving forward. The month and a half isn’t going to change dramatically the cost of the project,” he said. “All the delays in some ways have probably changed the cost of the project, but in some cases they’ve lessened it — going over the river versus under the river.”

...

Full story: https://calgaryherald.com/news/council-v...cm/f590aa51-a797-4e3b-98cc-ca0d831fe241/

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Oh I am not saying that it wasn’t under built, but there are some forum members on here that do spread misinformation and act as if it is already at full capacity (which it is not). That said I am much more happy with the Canada Line as is (with short platforms but grade separated and automatic) than the street grade version that was proposed before... That would have been a disaster. The Canada Line on the other hand has been a victim of its own success in a way.

Vancouver dodged one heck of a bullet there. C.L. as built is far superior to any surface solution.

Originally Posted by Metro-One

It is definitely worth talking about the Arbutus Line, and I do agree with you that it should have done grade separated portions of its own. Although before that the Canada Line should be upgraded / built out to its full capacity.

In a perfect world I would have the Canada Line upgraded 10 years from now and the Arbutus Line opening 20 years from now.

I would fully agree with such a timeline.

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Instead of crossing the river though I would actually have the Arbutus Line head west at its southern end along Marine (hub at Marine Station) and continue west along Marine all the way to New Westminster.

That's a good proposal. Are the tracks along the Fraser between Marine Drive and New Westminister ever in play now or in the future?

Originally Posted by scryer

I agree that the Canada Line needs to be built to its full capacity before considering relief options. However that's only IF the government stays ontop of it. Yeah it's cool that we got more trains for the Canada line this year and it is sufficient but the Canada Line isn't on the government's radar ATM (AFAIK) for other upgrades such as building a west platform for Richmond Brighouse or twinning the rail after Aberdeen. I am happy to be wrong because I want nothing but the best for the Canada line.

I would say so-far so-good. Translink has a good record of upgrading stations as capacity us required. They've done some major work to the Expo Line. They've added new sets of stairs and escalators to Canada Line stations. They are planning additional entrances AFAIK. They've been purchasing additional trains to boost capacity.

I can only hope Ottawa will have that same motivation to upkeep.

Originally Posted by scryer

I think that people are going to be very surprised by how much use the Canada Line will see when the Broadway extension to Arbutus opens up. It isn't like we are just waiting for the population to grow, we are also changing the system drastically.

Part of the main point of my previous posts were to point out that there are more reasons to develop the Arbutus line other than relief for the Canada line. You are connecting communities like Kerrisdale, Arbutus Ridge and so on to the main spine of the transit network (being the future Arbutus Skytrain station) as well as to downtown Vancouver. Canada Line relief should only be a by-product.

However I will say that after the Millennium line extends to Arbutus that we should consider throwing down a quick Rapid Bus service from Waterfront station, through Arbutus street and down to Kerrisdale to mimic the Arbutus line just so that we can gauge ridership and effectiveness. To clarify: I don't mean that the rapid bus strategy should use the Greenway.

I sure that you mean east to New West . And for the most part I agree although it would get messy when you get to New West but if there's a will, there's a way.

I do think that if the Arbutus line gets developed as an LRT system that it will open up the region to the possibilities of LRT being developed along other corridors. As foreshadowed by other users, in Vancouver, there is actually a lot of opportunities for LRT to be developed as we have a lot of wide streets south of False Creek.

Arbutus for sure will be more than a relief line, but it will act as so to a certain degree. I agree that Rapid Bus service (B-Line) from Waterfront using Arbutus Drive would be a great way to gauge ridership. Vancouver has been highly successful with this through he years.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by logan5

Another option for relief for Canada Line would be an extension of the Expo Line from Waterfront Station. You could connect at VCC Station (Millennium Line), or tunnel up Main Street to connect at Broadway. This set up would also provide relief for the Expo Line at super busy Commercial Broadway, whereas an Arbutus Line would not. For that kind of money though, you could build a true BRT along Arbutus.

So have the Expo loop around the downtown, sort of like the Yonge-University "U" in Toronto. Interesting proposal.

Has there been any discussion of extending the Skytrain to North Vancouver, and if so, which line would most likely extend? I like the idea of the loop, but would not want to negatively impact a possible extension north.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Here's a map of the likely path the Green Line will take through downtown, but the council vote has been postponed due to the pandemic. It will be June at the earliest by the time we have a decision.



Council vote on Green Line's downtown path delayed due to COVID-19
Madeline Smith | April 10, 2020 | Calgary Herald

Full story: https://calgaryherald.com/news/council-v...cm/f590aa51-a797-4e3b-98cc-ca0d831fe241/

Wait, so what's going on with the south portion? Have they launched an RFP? Has the contract been awarded?

Any consultation for the downtown portion should be done online and by mail during these unrepresented times. The price tag has likely jumped hundreds of million over the last three year of debate, it will only continue to go up. We don't want the final price to end of as high as 2017 for less.

[scryer]

I would say so-far so-good. Translink has a good record of upgrading stations as capacity us required. They've done some major work to the Expo Line. They've added new sets of stairs and escalators to Canada Line stations. They are planning additional entrances AFAIK. They've been purchasing additional trains to boost capacity.

Yeah but there's nothing else planned after ATM. TBF, I don't imagine that we will see any major upgrades to the Canada Line anytime soon due to the COVID-19 situation. And for the record, I am not worried at all about the Canada line; it's just that I would like to see Translink publicize what would be next on the upgrades list.

Originally Posted by J.OT13

So have the Expo loop around the downtown, sort of like the Yonge-University "U" in Toronto. Interesting proposal.

Has there been any discussion of extending the Skytrain to North Vancouver, and if so, which line would most likely extend? I like the idea of the loop, but would not want to negatively impact a possible extension north.

I actually made a fantasy based on the Hastings extension that would cross the Second Narrows to the North Shore, and then head back West to terminate at Park Royal. I based part of my fantasy off of the posts that waves made which analyzed the depth of the Burrard inlet. I would still keep the Seabus as both lines would work well together since they would both act as relief measures for each other. My fantasy is a little out-dated but you can find it here.

As for actual discussion from the government of extending the Skytrain to the North Shore, there has been none of that. We just got a rapid bus (think express bus) link that connects West Van and North Van. Unfortunately the North Shore is full of NIMBYs that oppose ALL public transit infrastructure so we won't be seeing a North Shore connection anytime soon.

[Dengler Avenue]

Oh yea, what’s the reason that R2 doesn’t go all the way to Capilano U again?

[logan5]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

So have the Expo loop around the downtown, sort of like the Yonge-University "U" in Toronto. Interesting proposal.

Has there been any discussion of extending the Skytrain to North Vancouver, and if so, which line would most likely extend? I like the idea of the loop, but would not want to negatively impact a possible extension north.

When the Expo Line terminates at Waterfront Station, the tracks are pointing eastward, away from downtown, so not a loop through downtown. Trains would either travel east along the waterfront and make a sharp right turn south at Main Street to connect with the Millennium Line at Broadway, or head further east and turn south at Glen Drive to make a connection at VCC/Clark Station.

Canada Line cannot be extended north for various reasons, so that's not an option for North Van, so that leaves the Expo Line option.

Imo, that kind of capacity is not needed in North Van, due to the limited population that is there, and the limited potential for growth because of severe geographical constraints. An Expo Line extension running south along Main, east along Kingsway, then south along Victoria Drive (for example) would serve far more people, and provide a lot more opportunities for transit oriented developments.

[White Pine]

In Canadian Transit news, I think Winnipeg was to open Phase 2 of their bus transitway yesterday. Too bad it comes at a time when nobody will take the bus much, but over time hopefully it will be a good thing.

[Chadillaccc]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Wait, so what's going on with the south portion? Have they launched an RFP? Has the contract been awarded?

Any consultation for the downtown portion should be done online and by mail during these unrepresented times. The price tag has likely jumped hundreds of million over the last three year of debate, it will only continue to go up. We don't want the final price to end of as high as 2017 for less.

If I read the article correctly (I may not have), the contract for the Southeast portion will be awarded within the next couple months. The contract RFP for the centre city portion will be a different contract due to its complexity, but will also (hopefully) be awarded by middle of summer-ish. I am just hoping to goddddddds that they end up picking the same contractor so that it can be completed seamlessly. Even if the contractor decides to start at the 4 Street SE subway station and go south while the rest of the centre city portion is built, that way they at least have a station in proximity to the core, and only 3 blocks from the other two lines. I just hate the idea of bringing the Green Line online and it only goes to Inglewood. It would be even more useless than phase one already is. Here's hoping that federal make-work/stimulus projects include an injection to the Green Line so that a "phase 1.5" can be added so that the north goes to 40 ave and the south can go to at least Mckenzie Town (two extra stations each end) so that it enters heavily populated areas.

Originally Posted by White Pine

In Canadian Transit news, I think Winnipeg was to open Phase 2 of their bus transitway yesterday. Too bad it comes at a time when nobody will take the bus much, but over time hopefully it will be a good thing.

In the wake of this economic catastrophe I imagine the federal government will stimulate the economy via massive investments in public infrastructure. Here's hoping this is one of them! I would love to see this. The transitway so far is excellent, and as we've seen with Ottawa (similar infrastructure), it will be easily converted to LRT/Premetro in time.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by White Pine

In Canadian Transit news, I think Winnipeg was to open Phase 2 of their bus transitway yesterday. Too bad it comes at a time when nobody will take the bus much, but over time hopefully it will be a good thing.

Yes, it opened yesterday. So now the entire route is built except for a small portion from Osborne Village to downtown where it runs on diamond lanes (completing it fully would require a pricy new river crossing, so it could be a long time before that happens).

Ridership was reportedly very light as you would expect on Easter Sunday during a pandemic. But the buses were still coming along every few minutes.

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

I'm not going to mention any names, but there was one guy from Salt Spring Island who was constantly making the same false claims every few months no matter how many times people corrected them. It was the ultimate form of gas lighting. Whether or not it was explicitly raised in any individual conversation, the "Canada Line at capacity" trope has been a long running irritant on the site basically since the line opened.

Well thanks for "not naming names" but I will assume you are talking about me. I have always been very critical of the CL, no secret there. It's lack of vision and laughably small platforms will reduce the line's capacity as we go forward. I realize that that it is not yet at capacity as service can be increased an the whopping 12 meter middle cars added. However, even having a conversation about capacity just 10 years after a line opened is bizarre.

The thing that ticks me off the most is Translink's claim of 15,000 pphpd. There is no way any system can SAFELY carry that amount of passengers with 50 meter and VERY thin platforms. Remember this is also an airport line with people carrying tons of luggage and connects 3 colleges. The original plan was to have overhead luggage racks which would have helped but alas no.

[ssiguy]

As for looping the current Expo line around to Main and bback up to Broadway, the idea has merit but not near as much as sending it further east to Kootenay Exchange. Hastings is a very busy road and a fairly high density population and there are many bus routes on it and they constantly getting bogged down.

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[someone123]

New ferry service coming for George's Island from downtown Halifax, assuming health regulations permit it to start up this summer:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scot...sit-georges-island-this-summer-1.5533241


Source

It's pretty interesting since the island itself has a 1700's fortification on it and great views of the harbour and skyline. It is a Parks Canada site but has not been open to the public because of a lack of facilities and boat access.

Halifax has a few harbour islands. George's, McNabs, Lawlor, Devil's, and a few little ones. McNabs has a camping area and beach and a bunch of old forts and buildings.

[J.OT13]

Was the island off limits before then? And why launch this service now?

I imagine the ferries will be in the Vancouver Water Taxi variety, otherwise the chosen service provider would need to build additional infrastructure.

In any case, seems like an excellent addition to the tourism industry. Fantastic vantage point to view the skyline.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Was the island off limits before then? And why launch this service now?

It was only open for special events with their own planned ferry service.

They have been planning to launch this service for a couple years now. I think it was probably held up by government approval and the need to build facilities like permanent washrooms on the island.

I imagine the ferries will be in the Vancouver Water Taxi variety, otherwise the chosen service provider would need to build additional infrastructure.

The tender says 100 people per hour so it's not going to be a commuter style ferry. The normal Halifax commuter ferries carry 390 passengers. There's a dock on the island already.

[scryer]

I'm sure that the Torontonians already know about this. But there is a video for station construction on the Eglinton line:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4rGyxJzqKE

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Our latest video explores the aspects of Toronto's transit system that Vancouver could learn from, check it out here!

https://youtu.be/_V7QXtR-Nys

There are things Toronto could learn from Vancouver. For instance... ATC does work, and work well.

It would be great if you took each city with higher order transit and give things they could learn from other cities.