CF Pacific Centre Developments

[connect2source]

As for as the rotunda, I'll be thrilled to see this hideous piece of 80s garbage gone forever. It had nothing to do with the original design of Pacific Centre, doesn't integrate well, has aged horribly.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by connect2source

As for as the rotunda, I'll be thrilled to see this hideous piece of 80s garbage gone forever. It had nothing to do with the original design of Pacific Centre, doesn't integrate well, has aged horribly.

Agreed. All too often, people hang on to a building or structure for the sake of hanging on. The Rotunda might have been good elsewhere, but it clashes with the overall PC design.
I think the new Apple store wil lend a 'crystalline' effect while adhering better to the straight lines of PC.

[jlousa]

My issue with losing the rotunda and the one at Hastings and Seymour is the gradual erosion of public amenity space not the structures themselves. Both of them provided a public amenity space (In the case of Pacific Centre the outdoor space) that were part of the the original development permits of each project. Now years later we are seeing those spaces redeveloped and that space disappearing. The city should be obligating them to at the very least replace that sqftage at a 1 to 1 ratio in the same immediate area or even increase it to account for the new development taking place. Arguing that there is the plaza across the street is devious. We should always fight to retain as much publicly accessible space as possible and we can do that while still allowing the private sector flexibility.

[phesto]

Originally Posted by jlousa

My issue with losing the rotunda and the one at Hastings and Seymour is the gradual erosion of public amenity space not the structures themselves. Both of them provided a public amenity space (In the case of Pacific Centre the outdoor space) that were part of the the original development permits of each project. Now years later we are seeing those spaces redeveloped and that space disappearing. The city should be obligating them to at the very least replace that sqftage at a 1 to 1 ratio in the same immediate area or even increase it to account for the new development taking place. Arguing that there is the plaza across the street is devious. We should always fight to retain as much publicly accessible space as possible and we can do that while still allowing the private sector flexibility.

Unfortunately it's a slippery slope and a lot of building owners have taken advantage of it. Look at Shangri-la hotel partially filling in their plaza with new restaurant space, same with the Grosvenor Building at 1050 West Georgia.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by phesto

Unfortunately it's a slippery slope and a lot of building owners have taken advantage of it. Look at Shangri-la hotel partially filling in their plaza with new restaurant space, same with the Grosvenor Building at 1050 West Georgia.

What public or private plaza space is illegally occupied by restaurant area?

[BodomReaper]

Originally Posted by phesto

Unfortunately it's a slippery slope and a lot of building owners have taken advantage of it. Look at Shangri-la hotel partially filling in their plaza with new restaurant space, same with the Grosvenor Building at 1050 West Georgia.

Retail and restaurant space is a far better urban amenity than cold, ill-defined, and under-utilized "plaza" space next to some building lobby. Most of these spaces contribute nothing - not in function nor aesthetics. They deaden the urban realm, not enliven it.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

What public or private plaza space is illegally occupied by restaurant area?

They converted the old lounge into the Rolex store and now want to do something in part of the public plaza. It was approved in 2018

https://rezoning.vancouver.ca/applic...rgia/index.htm

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

They converted the old lounge into the Rolex store and now want to do something in part of the public plaza. It was approved in 2018

https://rezoning.vancouver.ca/applic...rgia/index.htm

But what's the "slippery slope" and "taking advantage of"?

It's their private programmable space for the hotel that they are enclosing in a shaded and windy location for a cafe. The statutory right of way and fully public space is maintained.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

But what's the "slippery slope" and "taking advantage of"?

It's their private programmable space for the hotel that they are enclosing in a shaded and windy location for a cafe. The statutory right of way and fully public space is maintained.

They space they're converting wasn't part of the "public space" from their application so it's probably not even relevant.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by BodomReaper

Retail and restaurant space is a far better urban amenity than cold, ill-defined, and under-utilized "plaza" space next to some building lobby. Most of these spaces contribute nothing - not in function nor aesthetics. They deaden the urban realm, not enliven it.

Same could be said for most retail and restaurant space next to building lobbies.

[officedweller]

In the case of Pacific Centre, the loss of the public plazas was in exchange for siting the Canada Line station (and bike facility?) on the mall property.
There should be a post back in this thread about it.

[SpongeG]

that Plaza gets much more use than the Rotunda plaza ever got.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

that Plaza gets much more use than the Rotunda plaza ever got.

The rotunda often had a fair amount of people sitting inside, outside not so much. The outside space will attract more people after the changes, IMO.

I’ve been to the similar Apple store in Chicago and it’s gorgeous.

[officedweller]

The rotunda provide CF with space to host events. When it's gone, the mall won't have an indoor gathering space (other than the food court).

[TwoFace]

I for one will miss the PC Rotunda, it was iconic and had a presence on Georgia.
Sad architectural loss.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by officedweller

The rotunda provide CF with space to host events. When it's gone, the mall won't have an indoor gathering space (other than the food court).

Originally Posted by TwoFace

I for one will miss the PC Rotunda, it was iconic and had a presence on Georgia.
Sad architectural loss.

Exactly, especially when it is going to be replaced with a piece of garbage that creates a boring petty entrance to the mall, that is flanked by a business that only serves to drive up the stress-level of shoppers.

I always find the glass rotunda going well with the Georgia Hotel next door, and becomes spectacular during Christmas time with a big tree placed at the plaza.

[jollyburger]

I question your use of the word iconic and raise you a majestic and epic.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

i will miss the Christmas tree at Christmas, and all the lights in the trees on the outside. it always looked nice for Christmas. but Vancouver is the only major city without a nice Apple store, and i do like the design overall. i personally think it is a wash.

though, i do think it is a shame we are loosing the trees and greenery on this corner, so shortly after we lost all the greenery at the Art Gallery.

i took a visitor around the city who left in the 1990s and remembered the Art Gallery plaza as it was, a park-like space with fountain, and showed him what it became. he quite disliked it; i cant blame him, it is a crappy space now.

[officedweller]

Apple drives up the stress level of shoppers ?

The Art Gallery plaza was better in the 90s - actual manicured lawn (and short fence to prevent cutting across) and before all the protesters and gatherings on it. The dumb thing is that with the closure of Robson and if gatherings were focussed there, the north side could have been restored to greener space.

The rotunda would have been added when the Atrium was added. That former gathering space was gutted and redesigned for Holt Renfrew, so no surprise this area is also being redone. It's the consequence of the need to "update". The same motivation lead to multiple redos of the Eaton's/Sears, the mall interior, and countless classical, brutalist, modernist, post-modern and westcoast buildings around town over the decades.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Apple drives up the stress level of shoppers ?

The Art Gallery plaza was better in the 90s - actual manicured lawn (and short fence to prevent cutting across) and before all the protesters and gatherings on it. The dumb thing is that with the closure of Robson and if gatherings were focussed there, the north side could have been restored to greener space.

The rotunda would have been added when the Atrium was added. That former gathering space was gutted and redesigned for Holt Renfrew, so no surprise this area is also being redone. It's the consequence of the need to "update". The same motivation lead to multiple redos of the Eaton's/Sears, the mall interior, and countless classical, brutalist, modernist, post-modern and westcoast buildings around town over the decades.

Ever since small pet dogs appear in many households, I don't think the City has any more budget to maintain the many grass lawns and boulevards in the downtown area. Lawns are always patchy and ugly here compared to the past. These days, the artificial turfs along boulevards at Yaletown look way better and they do last longer. I suppose since downtown Vancouver never had a proper city centre square or plaza, the area at the Art gallery was naturally converted into one. The area needs to be patrolled more, as skateboarders and other yahoos often come to damage the street furnishings and other installations. We can't really have nice things in this city.

As for this:

Apple drives up the stress level of shoppers ?

Yes, especially when compared to the calm of the resting and brightly lit space provided at the Rotunda now.