Saskatoon Construction III

[roryn1]

Does anyone know when the new arena/convention center spot is being announced? I thought that it was supposed to be March as well...

[scotty c]

Originally Posted by roryn1

This seems extra from the utility work. It's a lot of dirt! I posted a photo of the dirt a couple of pages up.

Agreed, I’m not sure where the dirt is coming from. The post I was referencing mentioned digging equipment on site. I was trying to say the 2 (dirt & equipment) probably aren’t related.

[Crisis]

Haven't been to Broadway recently, but might it be material excavated from the Baydo project there being stockpiled for backfill when required?

[roryn1]

Originally Posted by Crisis

Haven't been to Broadway recently, but might it be material excavated from the Baydo project there being stockpiled for backfill when required?

Good guess! I’d bet that is the case.

[one_brick_at_a_time]

What is the current update of the Delta Bessborough rebranding to Autograph Collection? Are they done the renovations yet?

[Ricopedra]

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[Ricopedra]

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[Ricopedra]

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[prairieguy]

Your "tree description" reminded me of the now dead Market Mall condo project. I still think this would be a guaranteed 100% sales development. It has become known as the area of city for seniors and the mall is certainly developing to service seniors and currently undergoing major reno's itself. I think increasing density in this area just makes sense.

I also don't mind the architectural renderings for the project. Maybe it will be resurrected in better times?

https://globalnews.ca/news/2846433/new-condo-project-proposed-at-saskatoons-market-mall/

[roryn1]

Originally Posted by Ricopedra

Re: Downtown development.

How long do you guys think the Star Phoenix can hold out before stopping its print edition?

Whoever owns it is sitting on a goldmine: the downtown newspaper building is probably the greatest intact prime piece of land since River Landing and could easily be made into a multi building complex that could run self-sufficiently, with stores and offices in a podium.

I am very excited to see what will happen here in the near future. I'm surprised they haven't shipped out to the North industrial area already. Anyway, they could move their offices to 301 or the old police station and concentrate on their online publication.

Four buildings on the four corners: 16, 20, 24 and 28, (for example, but I'd go higher if possible) with a podium and townhouses all around. Shops fronting the corners, and a grocery store. In the center is a park for residents only, because it's elevated to the 3rd floor, including an area for dogs. Underground parking, of course, with at least one stall per unit, included.

It's called the "Evergreen Forest" and the buildings are shaped a bit like trees as they narrow with height, giving each floor significant terraces, or balconies, which you can choose to enclose during pre-sales. The glass and aluminum siding is in green and dark grey or black, respectively.

Build it and they will come. Guaranteed. Maybe not the traditionalists; but the immigrants, travelers, doctors and artists with cash, for sure.

I completely agree! I live near this lot and their always empty parking almost takes up the sqft of the building, and they have a lot of trucks backing up early in the morning waking up condo residents. Their trucks pulling up and backing into the building are even crushing the underground parkade of a neighboring building. This is easily a company I would support with moving out to the downtown - at least their dwindling paper operation, move their journalists to another building downtown, building a beautiful condo/commercial center right there. 5th is my favourite street in the downtown thanks to its beautifully large trees.


This image is the Starphoenix lot, along with the parking lot to the north owned privately, never maintained (currently no grass even grows where grass should be), and leased by the city. I find it amusing that the city promotes infill in every way possible, but then leases this massive spot (spots aren't even leasible to the tenants in the nearby condos), utilizes it at 50%, the owner of the lot maintains it extremely minimal (I contacted the city about the lack of grass and they (the greedy owner of the lot) said it wasn't economical for them to maintain it which is a farce when they're easily pulling in thousands $$ from surface parking).

[roryn1]

The new downtown starbucks strip mall, the library, and (maybe) the convention/arena spots. Look at the loss of parking spots Saskatoon will experience over the next 5 years. How exciting.

[Crisis]

Originally Posted by Ricopedra

Re: Downtown development.

Four buildings on the four corners: 16, 20, 24 and 28, (for example, but I'd go higher if possible) with a podium and townhouses all around. Shops fronting the corners, and a grocery store. In the center is a park for residents only, because it's elevated to the 3rd floor, including an area for dogs. Underground parking, of course, with at least one stall per unit, included.

It's called the "Evergreen Forest" and the buildings are shaped a bit like trees as they narrow with height, giving each floor significant terraces, or balconies, which you can choose to enclose during pre-sales. The glass and aluminum siding is in green and dark grey or black, respectively.

Build it and they will come. Guaranteed. Maybe not the traditionalists; but the immigrants, travelers, doctors and artists with cash, for sure.

While I admire your enthusiasm, I believe that you are dramatically overestimating the demand for such a development. Recall that there are still units available in both No.1 River Landing and The Banks.

I'm not trying to be a wet blanket discouraging development and I fully support discussions like this. It's just that many posters on this board seem to feel they have the right to tell others how to spend their money.

Guaranteed? Great - get some investors together and build it.

[slats]

Originally Posted by roryn1

I find it amusing that the city promotes infill in every way possible, but then leases this massive spot (spots aren't even leasible to the tenants in the nearby condos), utilizes it at 50%, the owner of the lot maintains it extremely minimal (I contacted the city about the lack of grass and they (the greedy owner of the lot) said it wasn't economical for them to maintain it which is a farce when they're easily pulling in thousands $$ from surface parking).

Sort of like how the City loves to promote downtown density and development yet they are the land developer responsible for Evergreen and Aspen Ridge, the new subdivisions farthest away from the core.

[Ricopedra]

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[FarmerHaight]

I'm related to someone who used to write for the StarPhoenix and she expressed the same thoughts the other day. Post Media has moved almost all production out of house. The add department, layout, editing has all gone to Ontario. Additionally most of the news run in the paper is written for other papers and reproduced in the StarPhoenix. Really the only reason the building is still useful is because of the press but having an empty second-floor news room makes it hard to justify the downtown property taxes.

[Crisis]

Originally Posted by Ricopedra

This is great! Thanks for thinking about this important way forward for Saskatoon, fellow forumers.

Why does downtown specifically have to be thought of as unattainable by most residents, and taxed out of reach for the average Joe? Like Crisis says, and hints to: It ain't easy to build or live here. But it should be waaaaaaay easier! We still have dirt roads that have never been paved in the core! We can do better.

I admit, looking at some great photography of Saskatoon, to being appalled to see massive condo developments in the burbs. Cookie-cutter cardboard crap, yet people are buying them up.

There is definitely the market. Make them affordable near the core and the city is a better place within 3 years, guaranteed.

Why wouldn't these buyers want to live downtown? Why aren't these buildings stacked up a bit and being built in the north downtown industrial area instead, creating a true density of safety and convenience? The new police station is right there.

The city has spent millions of dollars doing studies on the area for exactly this reason, but haven't dropped any tax barriers to core development, although there's the abatement of 5 years for new buyers, if a developer is rich enough in the first place to pull a place off.

Basically, it's acceptable that anything in the core has to have the shit taxed out of it, while everything for the new and rich and furthest away is relatively free of nickel and diming. What a back-assward system. Or is it ass-forward? I think it's just ass-inspired. Thankfully it's fixable, if anyone really cared. All you've got to do is protest. En-mass. Never mind. It's Covid season.

This makes for some good discussion. I think you answer some of your question in your own post:

Q: Why wouldn't these buyers want to live downtown?

A: Basically, it's acceptable that anything in the core has to have the shit taxed out of it, while everything for the new and rich and furthest away is relatively free of nickel and diming. What a back-assward system.

As with many things, it comes down to money. The taxes are much higher downtown (the listing for the existing Nutrien tower shows 2018 taxes of $580K) and the cost of land downtown is far higher than bare, serviced dirt in the 'burbs. Put those 2 things together, combined with the need for an integrated parkade downtown vs. surface parking in the 'burbs, and get get a far more expensive development downtown.

I'm certainly not denying the appeal of a downtown condo vs. a suburban one (I think a condo vs. a detached home with a yard is a different discussion). I think that, given a similar condo unit, the vast majority of people would prefer to live downtown. It's simply the economics that prevent them from doing so.

[ericmacm]

I've been modelling some of the stagnant/cancelled developments to model a "what could have been/what could be" scenario for Saskatoon. I also added an NHL-size arena downtown into one of the large downtown parking lots to see what it could potentially look like. The arena model is based on the size of Centre Videotron in Quebec City.

[NotToScale]

Downtown living is appealing for sure. But when your options of living spaces are shoeboxes for an inflated sum of money or nice sized apartment for your first born child, then the decision becomes quite simple, at least for me. I would rather live in a house if its going to be a long term, big money investment.

How do you create nice affordable downtown living that would have a larger portion of the population looking to buy or rent downtown? That is the question.

[NotToScale]

@Ericmacm nice work on the modelling.

If you wanted to get even more crazy with it you could add the old Cameco tower design in there and the Midtown tower. Even though those were just rendered concepts.

[mitchellk12]

Originally Posted by NotToScale

@Ericmacm nice work on the modelling.

If you wanted to get even more crazy with it you could add the old Cameco tower design in there and the Midtown tower. Even though those were just rendered concepts.

Might as well toss in those 2x 34 storey student towers w/library that was originally proposed too on the old police station lot