Long term repercussions from Covid-19 what will they be?

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Not sure I see the problem - the Province, surely, will just lend the municipalities the shortfall, pending repayment of taxes in arrears.

You are probably correct, but I don't see any problem with a mayor pointing that out in public, until the point the government explicitly says the will do that?

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by milomilo

You are probably correct, but I don't see any problem with a mayor pointing that out in public, until the point the government explicitly says the will do that?

I've never been a mayor, but if I were it's something I might be inclined to discuss with the Province's responsible minister before I flagged it in public. Perhaps he did. In any event, every municipality in the country is, I imagine, in a similar position.

[jawagord]

Originally Posted by LakeLocker

No construction, no immigration, no automotive sales, no retail, resturants, and now no stampede.


Celebrate the year of Gutenberg!!!!!

Edmonton is out of the gate early on canceling summer. I've been to Frankfurt, would rather be going to Edmonton!


https://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-n...cm/36455b4d-c8c3-4e64-a87b-9b375e2be45d/

[mcminsen]

Quoting whatnext's post in The Vancouver Business thread in the Vancouver forum.

From the article:

"If the aquarium does have to close permanently, Gustavsson admits he’s not sure how its 70,000 animals — from spiders to seas lions — will be cared for.

Unlike any other visitor attractions, “we can’t just switch off the lights and go home.” "

Originally Posted by whatnext

Vancouver Aquarium warns it could close permanently:

VANCOUVER (NEWS 1130) — The Vancouver Aquarium could close for good in two months if it’s unable to secure at least $1 million a month in immediate financial support.

Lasse Gustavsson, CEO of Ocean Wise, which operates the aquarium, said the aquarium is hemorrhaging $3.3 million a month after shutting down due to COVID-19.

He added, Ocean Wise applied for $9.5 million in emergency funding from the federal government three weeks ago, but hasn’t heard back yet...

https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/04/15/vancouver-aquarium-warns-it-could-permanently/

[misher]

Long term I hope Canada stops being so ridiculous about testing. We're such a small market that many home testing kits that would save lives are not approved here despite being widely used across the world. Hell Canada makes some of the testing kits Americans use that are not approved here.

Isn't it sheer negligence that our 🞵🞵🞵 workers cannot ask clients to take a HIV test before relations? Or that we cannot carry tests in our bags for partners to take before relations? WHO approved HIV home tests in 2016 but Canada hasn't done so. I would argue that Canada blocking home testing kits is cruel and inhumane.

I know a lot of people don't realize this but Canada is this massive bureaucratic monolith. And our slowness/refusal to do things has cost many lives.

https://www.macleans.ca/education/colleg...nada-to-introduce-self-testing-hiv-kits/

[Chadillaccc]

It's amazing that they still haven't made a decision if Stampede will be cancelled or not.

[ssiguy]

I think a long-term reprecussion will be that Canada will no longer allow so many immigrants into the country. Obviously Canada basically won't be accepting nearly anyone for the next 2 years as the unemployment rate will remain very high long after the health crisis is over and there will be no public appetite to let people in while millions are still out of work.

While immigration will return I don't think it will be remotely close to the numbers we have been getting recently and will drop by more than half. People are now seeing some of the negatives of immigration and not just health ones. People are getting tired of not finding affordable or decent housing, not being able to get their kids into university because a third of the students are foreign, and newcomers having moral codes that are not in line with contemporary Canada. Many business leaders are also been critical of such high immigration rates as it produces false growth not based upon productivity gains but rather just real estate. Unions have also been very critical due to supressing wage growth particularly for service sector workers. This is one of the primary reasons why Canada's productivity growth has been lagging other OECD countries.

This will mean that our cities will, at the very minimum, realize zero population growth and many significant population decline. We will have to begin to plan our finances, education, social, health, infrastructure, and urban planning goals to reflect this new reality.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

newcomers having moral codes that are not in line with contemporary Canada

What do you mean?

[ReeceZ]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I think a long-term reprecussion will be that Canada will no longer allow so many immigrants into the country. Obviously Canada basically won't be accepting nearly anyone for the next 2 years as the unemployment rate will remain very high long after the health crisis is over and there will be no public appetite to let people in while millions are still out of work.

While immigration will return I don't think it will be remotely close to the numbers we have been getting recently and will drop by more than half. People are now seeing some of the negatives of immigration and not just health ones. People are getting tired of not finding affordable or decent housing, not being able to get their kids into university because a third of the students are foreign, and newcomers having moral codes that are not in line with contemporary Canada. Many business leaders are also been critical of such high immigration rates as it produces false growth not based upon productivity gains but rather just real estate. Unions have also been very critical due to supressing wage growth particularly for service sector workers. This is one of the primary reasons why Canada's productivity growth has been lagging other OECD countries.

This will mean that our cities will, at the very minimum, realize zero population growth and many significant population decline. We will have to begin to plan our finances, education, social, health, infrastructure, and urban planning goals to reflect this new reality.

Fully agreed. We never needed the high amounts of immigrants that we have been taking in. Slash it down to more manageable and realistic numbers. And sorry to say, we need to become more picky about which immigrants we allow into our country. I for one, hope to see a significant reduction in the amount of Chinese we allow into this country. After this whole fisco, it's plain to see why we can't trust that culture as a whole.

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by esquire

What do you mean?

I mean that many new immigrants tend to be far more socially conservative than what most Canadians find tolerable. The vast majority are from countries that are far more conservative than Canada and many do not share the same values we have in terms of gender, racial, ethnic, religious, and 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 orientation equality.

I also agree that there will be a far fewer Chinese allowed in as China has been very successful is undermining Western democracies by sending people overseas who are here for no other reason than to influence our domestic and foreign policy. China has become an international pariah and this virus for many is the last straw and the world will be united in taming the monster they have created and immigration will reflect that.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I mean that many new immigrants tend to be far more socially conservative than what most Canadians find tolerable. The vast majority are from countries that are far more conservative than Canada and many do not share the same values we have in terms of gender, racial, ethnic, religious, and 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 orientation equality.

I also agree that there will be a far fewer Chinese allowed in as China has been very successful is undermining Western democracies by sending people overseas who are here for no other reason than to influence our domestic and foreign policy. China has become an international pariah and this virus for many is the last straw and the world will be united in taming the monster they have created and immigration will reflect that.

Which could mean more money leaving China, much of which will land in Canada, as the destination of least resistance.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I mean that many new immigrants tend to be far more socially conservative than what most Canadians find tolerable. The vast majority are from countries that are far more conservative than Canada and many do not share the same values we have in terms of gender, racial, ethnic, religious, and 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 orientation equality.

I also agree that there will be a far fewer Chinese allowed in as China has been very successful is undermining Western democracies by sending people overseas who are here for no other reason than to influence our domestic and foreign policy. China has become an international pariah and this virus for many is the last straw and the world will be united in taming the monster they have created and immigration will reflect that.

I have been saying for a while that something like this could be brewing. But I will believe it when I see it.

[esquire]

There is something ironic about wanting to close the door on immigration because we're concerned the immigrants aren't tolerant enough.

For what it's worth this type of accusation has been levelled at immigrants for ages... not so much regarding tolerance since that's arguably a concern that has emerged over the last few decades (the Charter era basically), but in the past it was always expressed as concern that immigrants were bringing their old world biases, loyalties and rivalries over with them. But strangely, most of those problems disappeared after a couple of generations... I'm not sure that it will be much different with the tolerance thing.

Sure maybe the guy born and raised in Abuja might not be down with pride parades, but there's a good chance his granddaughter who will be born in Canada about 20 years hence would be perfectly comfortable participating in one. The reach of the old world fades away over time.

But leaving that issue aside, I could see there being a strong argument for pumping the brakes on immigration a bit until the economy settles down. It is tough to justify bringing in a lot of people if we're in a prolonged economic tailspin with high unemployment.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I have been saying for a while that something like this could be brewing. But I will believe it when I see it.

The Liberals have way to much of their “brand” invested in high immigration numbers to change. Plus they’ve basically used that to give the illusion of economic growth.

[ssiguy]

Last year Canada grew by 1.5% of which about 80% of that growth came from immigration which has been increasing for years and now we are beginning to see many of the negative consequences of it. It is no coinsidence that Australia & Canada are the 2 most expensive real estate markets when compared to income in the Western world and also have the highest per-capita immigration rates. This is made even more perverse when you consider they both have, by far, the lowest population densities. Both have been suffering from low productivity growth due to real estate becoming their economic driver and Australia particulary so. They also have the highest levels of household debt in the OECD due to housing costs.

A reduction in immigration will force to country to invest in productivity gains from the wider economy and not just real estate flipping for a quick buck. It will also force employers to invest in their workers to increase productivity and offer more training as opposed to relying on cheap foreign labour to keep costs down.

It will also allow Canadian students to get into the university and programs of their choice as opposed to not getting accepted due to a lack of space due to international students. In BC a staggering 25% of all university students are foreign and from 2014 to 2017 the number of international students soared in Canada by 37% and went from having 326,000 to 494,000. Even if we kept the FS numbers the same that would mean an extra 170,000 spaces which would greatly reduce our problem of not having enough skilled workers.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

It will also allow Canadian students to get into the university and programs of their choice as opposed to not getting accepted due to a lack of space due to international students. In BC a staggering 25% of all university students are foreign and from 2014 to 2017 the number of international students soared in Canada by 37%. In 3 short years Canada went from having 326,000 foreign students to 494,000. Even if we kept the FS numbers the same that would mean an extra 170,000 spaces for Canadian kids.

But international students pay higher tuition, and the number of university spaces isn't fixed. If students want to pay lots of money to study in Canada we should be encouraging that, while reserving space for domestic students.

It gets a bit more complicated when we talk about cases like investor-class permanent residents sending 3 kids here on the domestic tuition rate, thereby probably getting out more than they put in with their "investment" (at one point a government-backed loan that amounted to very little).

I don't view it as an immigration or no immigration debate, or even a debate about the volume. It is much more nuanced than that, and depends on what the exact deal is. The investor-class immigration programs were a bad deal but they've been cut back now or maybe completely eliminated.

[kwoldtimer]

Perhaps it’s different in other provinces, but I’ve never heard of an Ontario student not getting into an Ontario university because international students were given priority.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

People are getting tired of not finding affordable or decent housing, not being able to get their kids into university because a third of the students are foreign, and newcomers having moral codes that are not in line with contemporary Canada.

Is that you Kellie?

[niwell]

I don’t think immigration should be viewed as a right or left value, and there certainly are good arguments for reducing immigration. But it’s a bit scary when we hear things like “we can’t trust the (Chinese) culture as a whole”. The lasting results of this are going to be interesting, to say the least.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

China has become an international pariah...

You're overstating this.

Originally Posted by ssiguy

...and this virus for many is the last straw and the world will be united in taming the monster...

That's an extravagant claim that sounds like someone talking out of his 🞵🞵🞵.

Originally Posted by ssiguy

...they have created..

The world created the "monster" that is China? Wut?

Originally Posted by ssiguy

...and immigration will reflect that.

Governments around the world are going to alter their policies to restrict immigration from China? I don't know of any Western countries that would target specific source countries for restrictions like that.