General Updates and News

[OldDartmouthMark]

Well she showed out her ignorance in that post. I don't know anything about her and already I'm not a fan.

Stay safe everybody!

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Well she showed out her ignorance in that post. I don't know anything about her and already I'm not a fan.

Stay safe everybody!

Hi Mark, All the best to you and yours. News from China indicates severe harassment of Africans living,working and studying there.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Colin May

Hi Mark, All the best to you and yours. News from China indicates severe harassment of Africans living,working and studying there.

All the best to you and yours as well, Colin! Stay safe and hopefully we'll all be able to look back a this thing one of these months. This has thrown the whole world upside down.

[Nouvellecosse]

I do happen to know a fair amount about Keesmat. I've followed her career and listened to her podcast for years. She's a brilliant person who happened to make an inaccurate statement in an area outside of her professional expertise. If never having been wrong about anything even outside of one's field is a requirement for employment or respect, 98% of the population would be unemployed.

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

I do happen to know a fair amount about Keesmat. I've followed her career and listened to her podcast for years. She's a brilliant person who happened to make an inaccurate statement in an area outside of her professional expertise. If never having been wrong about anything even outside of one's field is a requirement for employment or respect, 98% of the population would be unemployed.

She made a stupid comment about people wearing a medical mask in a Toronto grocery store. All the replies show it was a stupid comment. You don't need to be an expert or have a PhD in medicine to understand why people would wear such a mask. She must lead a cloistered life if she cannot understand what she observed. Look at all the replies to her twitter post.
And she came out on the losing side in that TVO discussion regarding density and death yesterday. She didn't seem to understand the cultural differences between Asia and N America/Europe.

[Nouvellecosse]

I think it was inaccurate but I don't think it was stupid. There has been a lot of conflicting information going around regarding masks and other aspects of the virus and people make mistakes. Sorry but I just don't with your characterization.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I'll weigh in because I commented.

I don't know her from any other stranger on the street, but it peeves me a little when people speak up (or tweet in this case) as though they are experts when obviously they are not. She has no right to be judgemental and criticize people for wearing masks when she obviously doesn't understand the reasoning behind it, or anything at all about the people she is judging. The dozens of replies to her tweet sum it up pretty well.

This type of behaviour says a lot about a person, IMHO, and most of it is not good.

However your positive support for her reveals that she is likely good at her job, but being good at her job doesn't preclude her from possessing a level of ignorance... or arrogance. I've seen it before where somebody is brilliant in their line of work and they seem to internalize it to feel that they are brilliant in everything. She has demonstrated that she should not be commenting on this topic as though she was an authority, and hopefully she has learned from this experience, for everybody's sake.

[Colin May]

I spent 2 months in Yokohama, December '67 through February '68. Common to see people wearing masks - in the street and on transit, people of all ages. Quite common in other parts of Asia, then and now. She told TVO that she is an advisor to a Singapore business agency. The social culture of Asia is unlike our culture, deference to authority is par for the course, and the common good supersedes the individualism common in Europe and N America. Wearing a mask is therefore good for the individual and good for the community, and also shows the individual is acting in the interest of all.
I am sure she has learned from the replies to her comment.

[Nouvellecosse]

I didn't mean to jump down your throat and obviously there's nothing wrong with criticising someone. I guess I'm just a bit frustrated with all the cancel culture stuff where it seems like people are being completely written off like they're not deserving of any respect or benefit of the doubt because of one or two mistakes. I sort of got the same vibe in this case but perhaps I was mis-interpreting it.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I don't know her from any other stranger on the street, but it peeves me a little when people speak up (or tweet in this case) as though they are experts when obviously they are not. She has no right to be judgemental and criticize people for wearing masks when she obviously doesn't understand the reasoning behind it, or anything at all about the people she is judging. The dozens of replies to her tweet sum it up pretty well.

I tend to steer clear of Twitter in general and political content or pronouncements in general. It has a lot of outrage theatrics, commentary that is more about the desire for affirmation of the poster than the subject matter. I doubt that is getting better during this period when so many are isolated and stressed.

I hope you are all staying safe and healthy and that this period draws to a close as quickly as possible. I think this will change a lot of things, like how 9/11 did but probably more profoundly, but I don't think that it will necessarily take that many weeks before Canada can slowly return to something closer to the old normal than what we have right now.

With masks the advice and social dynamic got a little weird in North America. There was a lot of confusion about shortages, the possibility of infection due to improper use, and the distinction between self protection and preventing transmission from the mask wearer to others. There is also a lot of confusion about aerosolization of the virus (which requires an N95 mask but isn't likely to happen outside of specific health care settings). People should try to stay informed but shouldn't get too worked up, and it's the health care setting where mask use is most important right now since most others shouldn't have much exposure right now.

[Colin May]

[QUOTE=someone123;8890790]I tend to steer clear of Twitter in general and I am not on twitter but follow some issues. In this house we are well aware of what is happening in China and with daily messages from there we have followed this subject since before the western media paid much attention. I don't and won't post what we know except to say that we stocked up on supplies quite early. I don't go out much, except for a walk and stay at least 10 feet away from another person - the much touted 6 feet is not enough.
My main worry is that after this has passed we may have people who draw the conclusion that the medical advice and the closure of parks was over the top and that the low number of deaths somehow proves governments have overreacted. When I was younger I was all over the world and vaccinated for I don't know how many diseases, I had no choice in the matter.
We will all learn from this. I hope you keep well and get through this to enjoy the life that others have been denied. Keep safe.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Colin May

My main worry is that after this has passed we may have people who draw the conclusion that the medical advice and the closure of parks was over the top and that the low number of deaths somehow proves governments have overreacted. When I was younger I was all over the world and vaccinated for I don't know how many diseases, I had no choice in the matter.
We will all learn from this. I hope you keep well and get through this to enjoy the life that others have been denied. Keep safe.

The best argument against the "overreaction" is that we can see what happened in Wuhan, New York and Italy. There's no reason why that couldn't have happened in Canada except for the public health response.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by someone123

I tend to steer clear of Twitter in general and political content or pronouncements in general. It has a lot of outrage theatrics, commentary that is more about the desire for affirmation of the poster than the subject matter. I doubt that is getting better during this period when so many are isolated and stressed.

I hope you are all staying safe and healthy and that this period draws to a close as quickly as possible. I think this will change a lot of things, like how 9/11 did but probably more profoundly, but I don't think that it will necessarily take that many weeks before Canada can slowly return to something closer to the old normal than what we have right now.

With masks the advice and social dynamic got a little weird in North America. There was a lot of confusion about shortages, the possibility of infection due to improper use, and the distinction between self protection and preventing transmission from the mask wearer to others. There is also a lot of confusion about aerosolization of the virus (which requires an N95 mask but isn't likely to happen outside of specific health care settings). People should try to stay informed but shouldn't get too worked up, and it's the health care setting where mask use is most important right now since most others shouldn't have much exposure right now.

This forum is the closest thing I get to social media, and even this sometimes borders on the ridiculous (especially the Canada section - the Halifax section is much more sane). The reason I mentioned the twitter responses is that I had a number of thoughts when I read the linked twitter comment, then many of the responses I read subsequently echoed my exact thoughts. But yes, the whole dynamic of twitter sickens me somewhat, it often reads like a bunch of closet bullies waiting to pile on to someone - makes me wonder why they don't have better things to do with their time.

I agree with your other comments. The mask narrative from the authorities was a little confusing, and it still is to an extent. The last time I was out, at a grocery store a week ago, I saw a girl wearing a respirator type mask - the type you'd wear if you were painting - and I never thought anything of it. I figured that either she was immunocompromised, or just afraid of catching this thing. I considered the possibility that she could have thought she was in contact with somebody who had it - there would be no way of knowing short of asking her. But it never would have occurred to me to call out people in her situation on social media. That's just dumb and nonproductive.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

I didn't mean to jump down your throat and obviously there's nothing wrong with criticising someone. I guess I'm just a bit frustrated with all the cancel culture stuff where it seems like people are being completely written off like they're not deserving of any respect or benefit of the doubt because of one or two mistakes. I sort of got the same vibe in this case but perhaps I was mis-interpreting it.

I don't think you overreacted, you were just defending somebody you have high regard for. I was just commenting on what I read.

As I mentioned in my previous post, I don't have much regard for social media in general, so 'cancel culture' is just a concept that I have heard of, but it has virtually no meaning in my life. IMHO, you have to care what somebody on social media thinks of you for cancel culture to matter. I don't.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by someone123

The best argument against the "overreaction" is that we can see what happened in Wuhan, New York and Italy. There's no reason why that couldn't have happened in Canada except for the public health response.

Colin's point is valid though. I also read a US-based internet forum, and it's amazing how many of those members still think that this is some kind of scam, with people dying all around them. The lack of intelligence astounds me sometimes.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I don't think you overreacted, you were just defending somebody you have high regard for. I was just commenting on what I read.

As I mentioned in my previous post, I don't have much regard for social media in general, so 'cancel culture' is just a concept that I have heard of, but it has virtually no meaning in my life. IMHO, you have to care what somebody on social media thinks of you for cancel culture to matter. I don't.

Oh I understand completely.

I'm just not so sure about the second part. Social media is just the medium through which people are often communicating nowadays. But the people using it are real and their opinions have real world effects. In extreme cases people have been fired, or excluded from aspects of real life because of disparaging opinions spread about them. Unfortunately the idea that you can ignore your way out of it is, let's say, "optimistic". Yes social media shapes how the dynamic functions such as allowing negativity to spread faster, but ultimately it's just a form of public shaming that has existed before social media was even invented. Monica Lewinsky gave a fascinating TED talk on it a few years ago including discussing her experience that occurred over 20 years ago.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Oh I understand completely.

I'm just not so sure about the second part. Social media is just the medium through which people are often communicating nowadays. But the people using it are real and their opinions have real world effects. In extreme cases people have been fired, or excluded from aspects of real life because of disparaging opinions spread about them. Unfortunately the idea that you can ignore your way out of it is, let's say, "optimistic". Yes social media shapes how the dynamic functions such as allowing negativity to spread faster, but ultimately it's just a form of public shaming that has existed before social media was even invented. Monica Lewinsky gave a fascinating TED talk on it a few years ago including discussing her experience that occurred over 20 years ago.

Ummm OK, good points, mostly. But this will generally not happen if you don’t put yourself out there. I suppose you could be publicly shamed on social media without knowing it, but if it doesn’t have real world implications for you it will be akin to a tree falling in the forest...

I really think most of it is crap and has not done one thing to improve society. Now I really don’t want to enter into a debate with you on this, so that’s all folks. I’m done with this.

[Colin May]

This is old news in our house : https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...-say-blacks-mistreated-Chinese-city.html

There are videos and photos out in social media.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

The mask narrative from the authorities was a little confusing, and it still is to an extent. The last time I was out, at a grocery store a week ago, I saw a girl wearing a respirator type mask - the type you'd wear if you were painting - and I never thought anything of it. I figured that either she was immunocompromised, or just afraid of catching this thing. I considered the possibility that she could have thought she was in contact with somebody who had it - there would be no way of knowing short of asking her. But it never would have occurred to me to call out people in her situation on social media. That's just dumb and nonproductive.

The other possibility is she or someone in her household is a painter and this is the only thing they had handy, so that's what she used.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

The other possibility is she or someone in her household is a painter and this is the only thing they had handy, so that's what she used.

Possibly, and probably better protection than a medical mask. The point is, it's no big deal.