Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[Express691]

In other news: Unofficially, routes 143 and 125 have been discontinued early for the summer

There is no info on the next bus site.(nb.translink.ca)

Also, word is going around that the seasonal routes are not going ahead at this time

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by Express691

In other news: Unofficially, routes 143 and 125 have been discontinued early for the summer

There is no info on the next bus site.(nb.translink.ca)

Also, word is going around that the seasonal routes are not going ahead at this time

I wonder if the R2 will still launch on the 6th, or if it will be postponed due to the reduced passenger levels.

EDIT: The 42 Alma/Spanish Banks, 150 White Pine Beach/Coquitlam Central Station and 179 Buntzen Lake/Coquitlam Central Station are cancelled "until further notice", which makes sense given the number of closed public facilities.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Express691

In other news: Unofficially, routes 143 and 125 have been discontinued early for the summer

There is no info on the next bus site.(nb.translink.ca)

Also, word is going around that the seasonal routes are not going ahead at this time

The 125 is being replaced by the new 222 that's supposed to start up Apr 6th.

[cganuelas1995]

https://www.thisiscolossal.com/2019/07/bee-bus-stops/

Commuters in Utrecht may notice a new green tinge to their neighborhood bus stop. Local authorities in the Dutch city have added 316 green-roofed, bee-friendly bus stops to public transit routes. More than 50% of the Netherlands’ 358 bee species are endangered; the green roofs provide safe, consistent habitat for the critically important pollinators, and are planted with low-maintenance sedum. For the resident humans, bamboo benches and LED lighting contribute to the eco-conscious construction.

Would this be feasible/beneficial for our environment?

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Would this be feasible/beneficial for our environment?

They can (and have) put bee hives and small urban farms on the tops of buildings in Metro Van. All it takes is a flat roof and access for someone to get up there and check on things every so often. Considering all the potential buildings we could be doing this on, adding a small green space on top of a bus shelter seems like a solution in search of a problem.

People who are allergic to bee stings would have to stand at a distance or carry an epi pen with them if they wanted to ride the bus (my mom being one of them).

[officedweller]

I think they're just green roofs, not bee hives.
There could be a structural concern with extra water-logged soil weight
- they'd probably have to go with a 4 post design (as shown in the article) rather than the cantilevered ones they have now.
- but they look nice!
- sedums are the same as what's on the Vancouver Convention Centre Expansion, I think (somewhat drought resistant)

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by Sheba

People who are allergic to bee stings would have to stand at a distance or carry an epi pen with them if they wanted to ride the bus (my mom being one of them).

Bees only sting if you pose a threat to them. They're as afraid of you as you are afraid of them.

Wasps on the other hand are flying cunts.

[jollyburger]

I wonder if there's any lack of bee friendly environments in the city to worry about utilizing the tops of bus stops. They should install them on top of all their buses.

There are four bee hives on the roof of the convention centre.

https://www.vancourier.com/community/hig...entre-bees-work-for-all-of-us-1.20638731

[Migrant_Coconut]

Sounds like a decent idea on some of the larger bus shelters (e.g. SkyTrain stations and downtown stops). Otherwise, it's probably better to just ensure that all future green roofs or green walls include flowering plants.

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Bees only sting if you pose a threat to them. They're as afraid of you as you are afraid of them.

Wasps on the other hand are flying cunts.

If Africanized bees (more aggressive than ordinary European bees) ever develop a cold resistance and come up here, we might be in trouble. They've literally killed people in Texas and Arizona... and they'll do it to anybody within a four-block radius.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by officedweller

I think they're just green roofs, not bee hives.
There could be a structural concern with extra water-logged soil weight
- they'd probably have to go with a 4 post design (as shown in the article) rather than the cantilevered ones they have now.
- but they look nice!
- sedums are the same as what's on the Vancouver Convention Centre Expansion, I think (somewhat drought resistant)

In rhe City of Vancouver bus shelters are mostly part of the street furniture suite that is a package that includes other things like garbage bins and automatic toikets. It might be possible to switch to a green roof design when the contract is renewed, but the structural requirements would be more intrusive. The net gain in reducing ghgs wouldn't be very great compared to, for example, retrofitting green roof systems on existing buildings.

The Convention Centre roof has a more complex mix of plants, including grasses. It's mowed every year, and is effectively a meadow. The Olympic Village green roof on the net zero building has sedums, and it looked like they were being planted on the new green roof of Vancouver House as well.

[officedweller]

The shelters in the article reminded me of the older Pattison bus shelters we used to have.

*********

Of interest:
Downtown Toronto GO bus terminal (indoor facility) construction pics:
https://blog.metrolinx.com/2020/03/27/ta...look-like/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

[jollyburger]

There's a mostly sedum (?) green roof on Fortis too

http://architek.com/projects/the-fortis-green-roof/

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

If Africanized bees (more aggressive than ordinary European bees) ever develop a cold resistance and come up here, we might be in trouble. They've literally killed people in Texas and Arizona... and they'll do it to anybody within a four-block radius.

They're waiting for global warming

[djh]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Sounds like a decent idea on some of the larger bus shelters (e.g. SkyTrain stations and downtown stops). Otherwise, it's probably better to just ensure that all future green roofs or green walls include flowering plants.



If Africanized bees (more aggressive than ordinary European bees) ever develop a cold resistance and come up here, we might be in trouble. They've literally killed people in Texas and Arizona... and they'll do it to anybody within a four-block radius.

Fear factor
The Africanized bee is widely feared by the public,[39] a reaction that has been amplified by sensationalist movies (such as The Swarm) and some of the media reports. Stings from Africanized bees kill on average one or two people per year.[40]

(from Wikipedia)

Lots of fear and misinformation about Africanized bees. It's a little sad, and carries such a loaded undertone. Please don't help spread this.

[SFUVancouver]

While it seems like it's already been 2020 for a long time, Q4 2019 just wrapped up relatively recently and the American Public Transportation Association has published its ridership report. For Metro Vancouver, here are the stats:

Q4 2019 average weekday boardings
SkyTrain (Expo, Millenium, and Canada Lines): 512,400
Bus: 863,900
SeaBus: 17,000
WestCoast Express: 10,300

2019 full year boardings
SkyTrain: 165,061,600
Bus: 277,043,800
SeaBus: 6,263,400
WestCoast Express: 2,606,800

2019 TOTAL: 450,975,600

https://www.apta.com/wp-content/uploads/2019-Q4-Ridership-APTA.pdf

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

No doubt. My concern isn't so much the process as the processors: as with the Compass Card and others, the blame for any cut corners or shady deals or botched jobs will pass right over the contractor and fall on TransLink.

TransLink kind of has to deal with that problem all the time in its normal operations.

Plus, it gives Metro Van more actual control on development patterns. No more complex deals with universities needed to try to kickstart developments in rut periods.

Though how would profit be shared? Fixed payout for construction and then taking the rental revenue for the long-run?

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Again though, vertical integration doesn't really work for TransLink. They'd already be making a profit selling the land, but then any additional profit from building on it will probably come with the additional logistics of analysis, architecture, construction, unit sales, UDP meetings, renting/leasing, et al. That stuff isn't exactly a transport company's comfort zone.

Right. Sure, it's a thing, but it's more like a bunch of street segments, and that limits its usefulness as an arterial. A through road like 105th is going to require a whole lot of eminent domain that I doubt Surrey Council wants to bother with.

But you could say that about basically everywhere in the SoF outside of Whalley - most of which doesn't even have a B-Line/RapidBus. What makes Newton worthy of additional special treatment?

Actually, Surrey is extending 102nd to Old Yale Road. https://www.surrey.ca/files/City%20Centre%20Plan.pdf
The only section that is discontinuous is the aforementioned Sports Field block (likely due to that part being the biggest pain-146th is barely used anyways). Surrey First was REALLY willing to go with the Rube Goldberg approach at all costs, and Mr. Doug McCallum didn't care enough to change it.

But since we have it, 102nd could maybe be extended to the Freeway even as an extra 4 lane-connector (though there would be a need to cut through Guildford Heights Park and the Sports Field.)

Newton is a Town Center. We've already gone way off track on what the original argument was about.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by fredinno

TransLink kind of has to deal with that problem all the time in its normal operations.

Plus, it gives Metro Van more actual control on development patterns. No more complex deals with universities needed to try to kickstart developments in rut periods.

Though how would profit be shared? Fixed payout for construction and then taking the rental revenue for the long-run?

---

Actually, Surrey is extending 102nd to Old Yale Road. https://www.surrey.ca/files/City%20Centre%20Plan.pdf
The only section that is discontinuous is the aforementioned Sports Field block (likely due to that part being the biggest pain-146th is barely used anyways). Surrey First was REALLY willing to go with the Rube Goldberg approach at all costs, and Mr. Doug McCallum didn't care enough to change it...

... Newton is a Town Center. We've already gone way off track on what the original argument was about.

There'd still be a complex deal: now it's TransLink's contractor negotiating with UBC instead of TransLink. I don't think the middleman needs a middleman.

You could do it that way, but then why not just sell it to the contractor outright and call it a day? Unless the contractor gets the construction payout and TL gets the rents... but again, TL's just a transport corporation.

Eh, I'll believe it when I see it. Everything between 104th and 100th from above looks like an unfinished crossword right now, and nobody's particularly willing to sell.

So are Guildford, Fleetwood, Cloverdale and Langley - everybody's screwed by the relative lack of mobility, not just Newton, so we need a much better reason than "it would really help Newton" to blow the budget on a project for just one part of the region instead of one for the whole thing.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by djh

(from Wikipedia)

Lots of fear and misinformation about Africanized bees. It's a little sad, and carries such a loaded undertone. Please don't help spread this.

No, they're not some kind of monster swarm from a low-budget thriller, nor deadlier than the bees we're used to. No, it's not racist/untrue to say that they're much more defensive than said bees (sometimes lethally so) and generally outcompeting them.

Though I do appreciate the fact that "European" bees being crowded out by "African" bees could have Unfortunate Implications.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

There'd still be a complex deal: now it's TransLink's contractor negotiating with UBC instead of TransLink. I don't think the middleman needs a middleman.

You could do it that way, but then why not just sell it to the contractor outright and call it a day? Unless the contractor gets the construction payout and TL gets the rents... but again, TL's just a transport corporation.

Eh, I'll believe it when I see it. Everything between 104th and 100th from above looks like an unfinished crossword right now, and nobody's particularly willing to sell.

So are Guildford, Fleetwood, Cloverdale and Langley - everybody's screwed by the relative lack of mobility, not just Newton, so we need a much better reason than "it would really help Newton" to blow the budget on a project for just one part of the region instead of one for the whole thing.

What? No, I meant there wouldn't be any need to try to negotiate with universities to make things like Woodwards and SFU Surrey to try to revitalize neighborhoods.

Because TransLink doesn't benefit from land value increases? Because it's not a long-term revenue source and relies on the constant outwards growth of the transit network?

They already started on the Central City section, so I'd say they're serious.

You talking about Skytrain down to Newton now? Because 1.6B is far from 'blowing the budget'. It also makes it easier to get grids south of 88 Ave. The ideal is to get all the way to Sehmiahoo, though obviously there's more population on the East-West Axis than te North-South one.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by fredinno

What? No, I meant there wouldn't be any need to try to negotiate with universities to make things like Woodwards and SFU Surrey to try to revitalize neighborhoods.

Because TransLink doesn't benefit from land value increases? Because it's not a long-term revenue source and relies on the constant outwards growth of the transit network?

They already started on the Central City section, so I'd say they're serious.

You talking about Skytrain down to Newton now? Because 1.6B is far from 'blowing the budget'. It also makes it easier to get grids south of 88 Ave. The ideal is to get all the way to Sehmiahoo, though obviously there's more population on the East-West Axis than te North-South one.

That's Surrey Council's job - always has been and always will. TransLink builds the trains.

"Buy low, sell high" is the very definition of benefiting from land value increases. And how does having a real estate contractor give TransLink the prerogative to start handling properties that have nothing to do with future transit?

SkyTrain to Langley enables grids south of 88th and east of 140th, and it needs both the $1.65 billion and most of the $1.9 billion coming after it. That leaves $400 million, which covers a BRT from Guildford to White Rock.
Waste it on a streetcar to Newton - not the Semiahmoo area, which was never on the table - and Langley gets either a streetcar or a Fleetwood SkyTrain.

I dunno about you, but I'm not seeing the difference between BRT or a streetcar down King George. So we might as well do the one which covers SkyTrain to Langley.