The Vancouver Business Thread

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by misher

It’s unfortunate how many Vancouver locals will be cheering this, you should never cheer the suffering of fellow Canadians.

PS: casinos are one of the less used methods used by criminals to launder money. Only a complete idiot would think large criminal groups use casinos as their main method. But anyway that doesn’t matter because these are Canadians with jobs who work.

Seems doubtful, I think any logical person will think any community gathering spots that aren't essential should be shut down for the time being regardless on their opinions on money laundering.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by misher

It’s unfortunate how many Vancouver locals will be cheering this, you should never cheer the suffering of fellow Canadians.

PS: casinos are one of the less used methods used by criminals to launder money. Only a complete idiot would think large criminal groups use casinos as their main method. But anyway that doesn’t matter because these are Canadians with jobs who work.

Well, obviously you know all the methods that are used more than casinos to launder money, but the independent report a couple of years ago did call them “laundromats for the proceeds of organized crime”, and I don't think it's very polite to refer to Peter German as a complete idiot. Nobody said it was 'the main method', just that money - a lot of money - was laundered through BC casinos.

Many Las Vegas casinos are closing down even though there are only 18 cases of Coronavirus so far identified in Nevada, and they're far more important to that local economy.

The news release doesn't say if Great Canadian will still pay the employees who aren't working for now - some businesses that are closing are still paying their staff wages.

[misher]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Well, obviously you know all the methods that are used more than casinos to launder money, but the independent report a couple of years ago did call them “laundromats for the proceeds of organized crime”, and I don't think it's very polite to refer to Peter German as a complete idiot. Nobody said it was 'the main method', just that money - a lot of money - was laundered through BC casinos.

Many Las Vegas casinos are closing down even though there are only 18 cases of Coronavirus so far identified in Nevada, and they're far more important to that local economy.

The news release doesn't say if Great Canadian will still pay the employees who aren't working for now - some businesses that are closing are still paying their staff wages.

It’s not just about the employees the businesses themselves have been struggling after the new rules were put in (with no evidence that they did anything to reduce our crime rate) and this is just icing on the poison cake we made. We hate business in Canada it’s an awful attitude.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by misher

It’s not just about the employees the businesses themselves have been struggling after the new rules were put in (with no evidence that they did anything to reduce our crime rate) and this is just icing on the poison cake we made. We hate business in Canada it’s an awful attitude.

So BC casinos have a business model that relies on their punters being able to present large amounts of untraceable cash, and now there are rules that prevent that they're sruggling? There's something wrong with that picture...

In the meantime this conversation was about them closing down temporarily. Most will now close, but some are still open. They should probably close too. It has nothing to do with hating business. The Canucks and Whitecaps have stopped playing, but it's not because we hate sports.

[misher]

Originally Posted by Changing City

So BC casinos have a business model that relies on their punters being able to present large amounts of untraceable cash, and now there are rules that prevent that they're sruggling? There's something wrong with that picture...

In the meantime this conversation was about them closing down temporarily. Most will now close, but some are still open. They should probably close too. It has nothing to do with hating business. The Canucks and Whitecaps have stopped playing, but it's not because we hate sports.

Gross exaggeration here. Casinos here weren’t radically different than anywhere else. Money laundering was minimal at best representing a fraction of a % of their revenues. And we didn’t interfere with sports recently and make it hard for them to survive.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Anybody that thinks BC's casinos are having a hard time... may want to step inside a casino. Or just Google their profits.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Anybody that thinks BC's casinos are having a hard time... may want to step inside a casino. Or just Google their profits.

In fairness, PARQ has been struggling seeking outside equity partners to stay afloat. That could be due to a variety of reasons, though I'm sure cash flow issues are definitely one.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Anybody that thinks BC's casinos are having a hard time... may want to step inside a casino. Or just Google their profits.

Parq was paying $112 million a year of interest on $580 million dollars of debt last year.

[Changing City]

All BC casinos closing after tonight. Maximum patrons permitted in any venue reduced from 250 to 50.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Really? Apple, Nike, Cypress Mountain, Whistler will all make more money closed, rather than open?

I think he means that it's not as difficult a decision when some operating expenses such as wages would widen the loss if they continued to operate, although some retailers such as Lululemon, I think, have announced that staff would be paid as if they had worked.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by officedweller

I think he means that it's not as difficult a decision when some operating expenses such as wages would widen the loss if they continued to operate, although some retailers such as Lululemon, I think, have announced that staff would be paid as if they had worked.

I don't think any of the businesses that have chosen to close voluntarily will 'save' money in the short term. This says Nike will lose money while they're closed. Businesses are shuttering because it's what they think is the best way to protect their staff, (and to a certain extent their brand), but it's going to cost them something - and even more if they continue to pay staff, as several have indicated. It will be the smaller, independent retailers who are really going to struggle, and any chains that are in financial trouble already (Bed, Bath and Bankrupt maybe?).

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by rofina

In fairness, PARQ has been struggling seeking outside equity partners to stay afloat. That could be due to a variety of reasons, though I'm sure cash flow issues are definitely one.

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Parq was paying $112 million a year of interest on $580 million dollars of debt last year.

But PARQ restructured their debt just a week or two after those articles - they were running an operating profit of $18 million just that same year. The new regs are hardly killing the casino industry like some would have us believe.

[misher]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

But PARQ restructured their debt just a week or two after those articles - they were running an operating profit of $18 million just that same year. The new regs are hardly killing the casino industry like some would have us believe.

$18! million! massive profits on billions in investment! crazy how much money these damn casinos are making off us.

Originally Posted by Changing City

I don't think any of the businesses that have chosen to close voluntarily will 'save' money in the short term. This says Nike will lose money while they're closed. Businesses are shuttering because it's what they think is the best way to protect their staff, (and to a certain extent their brand), but it's going to cost them something - and even more if they continue to pay staff, as several have indicated. It will be the smaller, independent retailers who are really going to struggle, and any chains that are in financial trouble already (Bed, Bath and Bankrupt maybe?).

I think Vancouver should suspend its planned property tax increase and/or provide exemptions from property tax during the months businesses are closed.

People are cutting back, the city should have to too. 7% is insane. It'll be higher since luxury property's burden is being shifted to affordable housing.

[Migrant_Coconut]

I hope you're not insisting that they were making a fortune before the regs kicked in - they weren't. BC ain't Nevada.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by misher

I think Vancouver should suspend its planned property tax increase and/or provide exemptions from property tax during the months businesses are closed.

People are cutting back, the city should have to too. 7% is insane. It'll be higher since luxury property's burden is being shifted to affordable housing.

Think harder. The City's costs won't go down much, but the income from patrons at civic facilities, renting civic theatres and permits for events and filming, etc. etc will all be much less. The City heve to balance the books like any other business, and Coronavirus will create financial problems for them too.

[misher]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Think harder. The City's costs won't go down much, but the income from patrons at civic facilities, renting civic theatres and permits for events and filming, etc. etc will all be much less. The City heve to balance the books like any other business, and Coronavirus will create financial problems for them too.

The city can take on debt as long as our businesses stay active. Our businesses can’t easily take on debt to handle the city’s price gouging. Make no mistake a 5% increase last year and a 7% increase this year is gouging.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

But PARQ restructured their debt just a week or two after those articles - they were running an operating profit of $18 million just that same year. The new regs are hardly killing the casino industry like some would have us believe.

That was operating profit not income when you dump $30 million a quarter on interest. And it's not as if they restructured their debt down to 0%.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Hell, half of Vegas has crippling construction debt - not a lot anybody can do about that. As it is, even 43% less means that PARQ breaks even overall.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by misher

The city can take on debt as long as our businesses stay active. Our businesses can’t easily take on debt to handle the city’s price gouging. Make no mistake a 5% increase last year and a 7% increase this year is gouging.

Let's just add city finances and 'how taxes work' to the long list of things you don't really understand.

[cairnstone]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

That was operating profit not income when you dump $30 million a quarter on interest. And it's not as if they restructured their debt down to 0%.

Parq has been balancing on receivership from the time they opened. 18 million is marginal returns considering all the costs related to interest and paying down the principle. They most likely will be forced in bankruptcy after this and refinance