Hwy 99 Fraser River Tunnel (George Massey Replacement) | Proposed

[SFUVancouver]

^ I don't think anyone will especially know or care what it looks like from the air.

I wonder if the original tunnel would be maintained in some state of repair or if it will be fully decommissioned? While it wouldn't be suitable for use after an earthquake, I can imagine scenarios where in extraordinary situations it could still have use as a bypass for emergency vehicles if something catastrophic were to happen to the new tunnel (e.g. terrorism or Godzilla-related incident).

[DKaz]

Would be nice if they did a two lane reversible HOV lane. Probably easier to do with the bridge option. 3 general lanes in each direction + 2 HOV lanes northbound weekdays 5 AM to 12 PM and southbound all other times.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by s211

I do wonder if the deafening din of a tunnel and the impacts on pedestrians and cyclists has been fully mitigated by the tunnel proponents.

I think the cross-sections had pedestrians and cyclists sharing a separate narrow dark & dingy parallel tunnel.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

this was on facebook, it looks weird


1043thebreeze/facebook

The Deas Slough bridge will use levitation technology.

[s211]

Originally Posted by officedweller

I think the cross-sections had pedestrians and cyclists sharing a separate narrow dark & dingy parallel tunnel.

I can't only conclude that the mayor's council must have been stoned when they proposed the tunnel option.

[Metro-One]

So we always discuss the crossing itself, bridge vs. tunnel, 8 lanes vs. 6, etc...

But the real travesty of the new incarnation of this project is not the crossing itself, but the surrounding interchanges the lack of a broader upgrade to the corridor.

For transit it seems that they will indeed be going for "shoulder" transit lanes and shoulder bus stops... like seriously? That's the commitment to transit? And how to you convert that to rail in the future? No more true rapid bus median lanes with full on stations...

Now, here is the kicker, the budget will actually be higher! Digging through the documents it will cost 4 to 5 billion dollars. So 500 million to 1.5 billion more for so much less.

Here are the before and after renderings:

Steveston Interchange before:

Note the free flow of movements and the rapid bus station

GMBSI1 by Ian, on Flickr

GMBSI3 by Ian, on Flickr

And the current proposal...

Note that it is so bare that it retains the existing overpass....

8LaneTunnelSteveston by Ian, on Flickr

Now for the highway 17 Interchange before:

Note the flyover and bus station

GMBH172 by Ian, on Flickr

GMBH17Interchange by Ian, on Flickr

And the current design:

Note once again retaining the existing overpass...

I also see only 2 or 3 through northbound lanes as well

8Lane17 by Ian, on Flickr

So, to recap:

500 million to 1.5 billion dollars more

inferior transit

retaining existing aging structures and outdated interchange designs

far fewer free flow movements

and years delayed.

So what was gained by this???

For the people who supported stopping this project, has your mind changed at all that maybe the best course of action was to continue the project and simply reduce the bridge deck from 10 lanes to 8? Which I suggested from the beginning...

This is seriously one of the largest blunders in BC infrastructure in a long time

Seriously, write to the MoT about this if you wish at all to see a half decent project move forward. At the bare minimum a median lane bus system and replacing the existing overpasses...

[moosejaw]

Needs more traffic lights.
But seriously a major disappointment.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

thats what happens when stupid people vote for stupid people. typical NDP

[Metro-One]

Ironically with the extra money now needed to build this inferior project (where ironically the transit component seems to have suffered the worst) we could have covered the cost of the remaining half of the Expo Line extension from Fleetwood to Langley...

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

shouldnt the mayors be upset about this???

an extra 1.5 billion dollars, and it has even LESS transit than before. where is the outcry from them about highways etc? this is ridiculous.

the only good thing is that since the tunnel will be so environmentally harmful to the ecosystem, this will take so long for approvals, if they even get it, it most likely wont get built anytime soon and maybe we wont have idiots making decisions by then.

[Klazu]

We unfortunately have weak politicians that show no leadership in face of having to make hard but necessary decisions that are best for the majority. Just look at the current protest circus and the lack of leadership on both provincial and federal level.

[p78hub]

What is with this province's love affair with the parclo interchange?

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

shouldnt the mayors be upset about this???

an extra 1.5 billion dollars, and it has even LESS transit than before. where is the outcry from them about highways etc? this is ridiculous.

the only good thing is that since the tunnel will be so environmentally harmful to the ecosystem, this will take so long for approvals, if they even get it, it most likely wont get built anytime soon and maybe we wont have idiots making decisions by then.

Brodie is patting himself on the back for fighting against an "LA-style" interchange.

[flipper316]

https://www.delta-optimist.com/news/bridge-could-replace-delta-tunnel-plan-1.24071172

[Cypherus]

Originally Posted by flipper316

https://www.delta-optimist.com/news/bridge-could-replace-delta-tunnel-plan-1.24071172

"The go-ahead to initiate the environmental review for either option would happen in 2021, something that has Delta South Liberal MLA Ian Paton worried will result in a new crossing not available for a decade."

Another year needed just to initiate an environment review for each option? For goodness sakes this is not a protected ecological reserve that needs further study and environmental impact assessments. Seriously the use of these "studies" and "assessments" is just a stall tactic, and the crossing will never get built. Unless you have a change in government that goes ahead with a crossing, it won't happen until 2030. Might as file this thread into the archives until some action is achieved.

[osirisboy]

They have already done assements. Frankly, I rather them delay this until liberals come back in and they can do it right.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by flipper316

https://www.delta-optimist.com/news/bridge-could-replace-delta-tunnel-plan-1.24071172

I laughed over: Additionally, the Minister revealed the NDP has zero intention of ever bringing light rail south of the Fraser River, despite its steadily-increasing population and evolving transportation needs,” [Delta South Liberal MLA Ian] Paton added.

People want Skytrain and not on-ground light rail that's barely separated from SOVs - it's why McCallum was elected.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Sheba

I laughed over: Additionally, the Minister revealed the NDP has zero intention of ever bringing light rail south of the Fraser River, despite its steadily-increasing population and evolving transportation needs,” [Delta South Liberal MLA Ian] Paton added.

People want Skytrain and not on-ground light rail that's barely separated from SOVs - it's why McCallum was elected.

In Delta? You can make the argument that there’s so much ALR land you should go surface on it.

Not that Delta Rail transit makes sense in the first place.

[waves]

Originally Posted by fredinno

In Delta? You can make the argument that there’s so much ALR land you should go surface on it. Not that Delta Rail transit makes sense in the first place.

Ideally the Canada Line would go over the GMB, terminate in Ladner and connect to a Light Rail/Express Bus network there.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by fredinno

In Delta? You can make the argument that there’s so much ALR land you should go surface on it.

Not that Delta Rail transit makes sense in the first place.

He did say South of Fraser and not just Delta - and the only light rail that was proposed only had a curb separating it from general traffic. If they can come up with a reasonable plan for separated on-ground rail then there would be support. In the meantime they need more Rapidbus routes.

Originally Posted by waves

Ideally the Canada Line would go over the GMB, terminate in Ladner and connect to a Light Rail/Express Bus network there.

Ideally they'd upgrade the highway and bring in true BRT. Extending the Canada Line outside of Richmond doesn't make any economic sense.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by Sheba

He did say South of Fraser and not just Delta - and the only light rail that was proposed only had a curb separating it from general traffic. If they can come up with a reasonable plan for separated on-ground rail then there would be support. In the meantime they need more Rapidbus routes.




Ideally they'd upgrade the highway and bring in true BRT. Extending the Canada Line outside of Richmond doesn't make any economic sense.

BC Ferries/Translink would be better off building a new ferry terminal closer to the airport than trying to extend the Canada Line to the existing one (which is 60 years old) and incorporating the bus stops closer to the ferry berth.

For those who haven't tried to get to the Ferry on foot. You take the 620 from the Canada Line, the Bus takes 35-50 minutes, arrives 5 minutes before the Ferry arrives typically, and is still a good 10 minute hike through the terminal and then you have to squeeze into the tiny waiting area at the end.

On more than one occasion, the ferry has pulled in , and there are lines going all the way back to Berth 2 from Berth 5. The Ferry terminal waiting area is quite literately too small for the foot traffic it serves, but at the same time it sprawls where an airport would have a people mover or a moving sidewalk. I have to wonder how much of a pain it for people in wheelchairs/mobility scooters to walk on. So why not just move the transit closer to waiting area.

Every time I hear "it doesn't make sense to extend the Canada Line" I think the person hasn't put any serious thought into it. No I don't think the Canada Line needs to extended into the middle of ALR, but the 620 is insufficient, but the ferry frequency doesn't work with a rapid transit line, or perhaps it would work better if people didn't need to take their car. So while right not it doesn't make sense, there's no matching rapid transit on the other side, there's no rapid transit at all on Victoria's side.

So to put this back into context, if the ferry terminal was on Richmond's side of the tunnel, a whole bunch of that car traffic would would have to shift, as suddenly all the ferry traffic wouldn't have to go through the tunnel, they would now have three ways to go, and would be closer to the Airport.

But I digress, "we don't need to extend the Canada Line" is short-sighted thinking. If they put space on the tunnel for a rapid transit line, the Canada Line should be extended through it, through Ladner, Tsawwassen Mills, and the Ferry Terminal. It doesn't need to be on day 1, but it should be guaranteed so short-sighted government people don't change their mind and convert the space into car space.