SkyTrain Station Renovations

[cairnstone]

Originally Posted by Changing City

If it had been an elevated line (which was never contemplated) and the cost was similar to Capstan, then yes. Presumably a trenched line would allow a station to be achievable too - although with some difficulty if the road and property access was maintained during construction.

The Langara Gardens Policy Statement, adopted in 2018 also establishes that when that rezoning proceeds the developers will also contribute to a future station. It doesn't seem realistic that those two projects could be expected to generate $90 to $100m to cover the anticipated costs, if Translink change their current stance and support construction of an additional station. Other funds will have to be found to make up the final cost.

The city seems to be doing everything they can to make it happen; reserving a site and collecting cash (in a protected fund). It's just not nearly as easy as the Richmond station.

One of the reasons of the high costs was that when they did the cut cover all they did was put on a a level section instead of building a proper structure that would allow simple nockouts to be cut in. Another short site in the process to build the Canada line. So to build the new station requires to build around the existing tunnel and a portion of work is in a 3 hour window. So large costs attached to it.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by cairnstone

One of the reasons of the high costs was that when they did the cut cover all they did was put on a a level section instead of building a proper structure that would allow simple nockouts to be cut in. Another short site in the process to build the Canada line. So to build the new station requires to build around the existing tunnel and a portion of work is in a 3 hour window. So large costs attached to it.

The 'they' who built the Canada Line that way wasn't the city, who had no say in the design or construction of the project. Allowing higher density projects than the plan already allows at the possible station area (beyond Pearson and Langara Gardens) wouldn't seem to be good planning if Translink aren't going to support the new station construction. Presumably there are negotiations taking place to clarify how the situation will play out, but the city can't 'make' things happen. It's a similar situation to the design of the Broadway line to Arbutus - the project is being controlled by the Provincial transportation department. Even if the city, and Translink think two entrances are a good idea for a station, for example, they can't make that happen. They may all be partners in transportation projects, but they're not equal partners, and with the Canada Line there's the additional complicating factor of the P3 private sector operator.

[cairnstone]

Originally Posted by Changing City

The 'they' who built the Canada Line that way wasn't the city, who had no say in the design or construction of the project. Allowing higher density projects than the plan already allows at the possible station area (beyond Pearson and Langara Gardens) wouldn't seem to be good planning if Translink aren't going to support the new station construction. Presumably there are negotiations taking place to clarify how the situation will play out, but the city can't 'make' things happen. It's a similar situation to the design of the Broadway line to Arbutus - the project is being controlled by the Provincial transportation department. Even if the city, and Translink think two entrances are a good idea for a station, for example, they can't make that happen. They may all be partners in transportation projects, but they're not equal partners, and with the Canada Line there's the additional complicating factor of the P3 private sector operator.

The city can have a big input into stations but choose not to be involved financially. As Burnaby has dictated station locations. Who paid for the mini extension to VCC.

[Mac Write]

I know the VCC-Clark was part of phase one but not sure why it was delayed (as well as Lake City Way which was 1-2 years late).

[MIPS]

VCC-Clark was delayed because of squabbling between the city, the railway and groups who didn't want the cut completely deforested at the last leg in order to run the guideway. There is also a stupid amount of geotechnical work that was needed to keep the hillside stable.

[cairnstone]

Originally Posted by Mac Write

I know the VCC-Clark was part of phase one but not sure why it was delayed (as well as Lake City Way which was 1-2 years late).

Lake City was paid by city of Burnaby and was started shortly after the line opened.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by MIPS

VCC-Clark was delayed because of squabbling between the city, the railway and groups who didn't want the cut completely deforested at the last leg in order to run the guideway. There is also a stupid amount of geotechnical work that was needed to keep the hillside stable.

I think it had more to do with the station location over/within the BNSF yards than the Grandview Cut.

Here's a Global Air Photo from June 22, 2002 and you can see the guideway has been built all the way to the station site.


http://old.globalairphotos.com/large.php...r&area=East&gallery=2002&page=239&size=2

[flipper316]

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/translink-overhaul-skytrain-columbia-station

[SpongeG]

Brentwood is also getting a renovation/work done, are they going to redo a better south side entrance?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by flipper316

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/translink-overhaul-skytrain-columbia-station

This seems like a prime opportunity to work with New West in a big density/redevelopment of the area that will include having developers pay a little for a revamped station. It doesn't need to be fully integrated like New West, but that would be a good model to shoot for.

Columbia station is depressing, and the local area matches.

[officedweller]

Ultimately, Columbia needs a 3rd platform so that Braid and Sapperton can be served off a branch of the Millennium Line terminating at Columbia without interfering with Expo Line trains. That will help with capacity when it's extended to Langley.

There may be space under Clarkson St. to the east with some expropriation/property acquisition, for a siding and platform,
with an underground passage across the street to the old station (maybe even a branch passage under the Expo guideway to the eastbound platform).
The 3rd platform would probably have to be deeper than Columbia Station, which is really a trenched station.
With all the driveways in the area, the tunnel and station would probably have to be mined
(maybe even with buildings above remaining in place since they wouldn't have deep underground garages)
Longer transfer for Coquitlam<->Surrey, but probably shorter than at Commercial Broadway.


https://www.google.com/maps/place/Clarks...332bccfa!8m2!3d49.2050187!4d-122.9058078

[Migrant_Coconut]

Good idea if plausible... but once the Millennium gets to Port Coq, that becomes a three-way split. I'd just have two or three Expo trains shuttling back and forth independent of the main line.

[officedweller]

Depends what the volume would be on the 3 M-Lines and how much the Langley Extension adds to Expo Line volumes.
I could see low volumes on the 3 M-Line branches compared to the Expo Line.

Lougheed<->Columbia could also be a back and forth shuttle as was once proposed since each terminus would have a siding to reverse.
Then you'd only have 2 branches on the M-Line and full capacity on the Expo Line.
(or is that what you meant?)

[Metro-One]

Also support third platform / rail for Columbia.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Lougheed<->Columbia could also be a back and forth shuttle as was once proposed since each terminus would have a siding to reverse.
Then you'd only have 2 branches on the M-Line and full capacity on the Expo Line.
(or is that what you meant?)

Pretty much, yes. Just mark it as "Expo" on the map (albeit with a separated blue line) to avoid confusion.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by flipper316

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/translink-overhaul-skytrain-columbia-station

Also: This planning work is being conducted under Phase Two of the Mayors’ Council’s 10-year plan, which includes designing future upgrades for Edmonds Station and Stadium-Chinatown Station.

Edmonds has been pushed back enough times that I've gotten to 'I'll believe it when I see it'. I think they were talking about a ramp to the south side of the station 20 years ago.

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Columbia station is depressing, and the local area matches.

I'll agree with the first part of your comment. Sure Columbia Street could do with some work but they've been paying attention to that over by New West Station instead. Hopefully when the latest towers are finished they'll start making their way along the street. Up the hill from Columbia Station up to Royal is a mix of low rises and towers.

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Also support third platform / rail for Columbia.

If there's room for it - but is there? Looking at is as a reno of what's there, it needs:

* a rebuild of both the 4th Street and Clarkson entrances
* an up escalator (it's missing on the outbound platform) - down escalators would be a bonus
* new elevators
* replace the mesh screens with glass on the outboard platform side
* add some kind of roof over the platform / tracks
* all new lighting

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

Brentwood is also getting a renovation/work done, are they going to redo a better south side entrance?

This is what was on their todo list for Brentwood:

The project involves adding passenger information displays, CCTV cameras, two new escalators, a commercial retail unit and improvements to the lighting and PA system. The station's north stairs will also be enclosed and rehabilitated, the mezzanine resurfaced, and canopies added to the mezzanine to better protect passengers from the weather.

https://www.masstransitmag.com/rail/infr...enities-at-brentwood-town-center-station

They probably could have a better entrance when the south side of the station gets redeveloped.

[scottN]

Originally Posted by officedweller

There may be space under Clarkson St. to the east with some expropriation/property acquisition, for a siding and platform,
with an underground passage across the street to the old station (maybe even a branch passage under the Expo guideway to the eastbound platform).
The 3rd platform would probably have to be deeper than Columbia Station, which is really a trenched station.
With all the driveways in the area, the tunnel and station would probably have to be mined
(maybe even with buildings above remaining in place since they wouldn't have deep underground garages)
Longer transfer for Coquitlam<->Surrey, but probably shorter than at Commercial Broadway.

Mining is awfully expensive. It might be cheaper to demolish the eastern end of the Front street parkade and build the third platform there. The distance is only 110m, which is just slightly longer than the 100m distance between platforms at Commercial Broadway.

[officedweller]

New West just demolished part of the parkade - don't know if they'd want an elevated SkyTrain line on the waterfront blocking the view.
I doubt they'd want an "on street" transfer, either.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Also: This planning work is being conducted under Phase Two of the Mayors’ Council’s 10-year plan, which includes designing future upgrades for Edmonds Station and Stadium-Chinatown Station.

Edmonds has been pushed back enough times that I've gotten to 'I'll believe it when I see it'. I think they were talking about a ramp to the south side of the station 20 years ago.




I'll agree with the first part of your comment. Sure Columbia Street could do with some work but they've been paying attention to that over by New West Station instead. Hopefully when the latest towers are finished they'll start making their way along the street. Up the hill from Columbia Station up to Royal is a mix of low rises and towers.




If there's room for it - but is there? Looking at is as a reno of what's there, it needs:

* a rebuild of both the 4th Street and Clarkson entrances
* an up escalator (it's missing on the outbound platform) - down escalators would be a bonus
* new elevators
* replace the mesh screens with glass on the outboard platform side
* add some kind of roof over the platform / tracks
* all new lighting

Columbia Station is pretty awful, and if they want to make it better they might need to move the entire station a few meters away from the switch that always has problems. Last year there was also flooding in that tunnel.

Ideally, they would be able to redesign it so that it has three platforms that operate in a spanish solution, but we might be stuck with what's there.

Basically normal operations are like before, but the inbound trains switch tracks before Columbia so that they don't need to navigate the switch after Columbia, and then switch onto the production way portion without having to obstruct trains arriving at Columbia from the Skybridge.

Or even just building an entirely new station. Track and all.