Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[TheMatth69]

I could go on many things about this network but one of the things that chocks me is how we manage frequency of service throughout the day.
For having been on many systems around the world (Paris, Lyon, London, Munich, Montreal, Toulouse) Ottawa is literally the only network I've been on that keeps high frequency (rush hour like frequency) during flat hours and early evening. 5 minutes gap between trains is way too much for me and one of the reasons RTG is failing to keep the fleet in check. Let me explain :
1) By keeping such high frequencies you ad more kilometers and stress to the trains, meaning faster wear of the weels, more chances that a train will eventually encounter technical problems and less time to deal with the issues since maintenance time can only be done correctly after 8pm when frequency falls down to 7mins and more.
2) High frequency during flat hours means empty trains, the Confederation line in its current stage is basically a very low density transit system and trains barely fill up during the day. Less trains and less frequency would make trains carry more passenger per train which is something you're looking for when you built a metro or a Light-Metro (like us). Furthermore Montreal for exemple is a great exemple of frequency fluctuations and adaptation to demand throughout the day. Trains run every 4 to 5 mins on rush hours, and frequency can fall down to 7 or 8 mins during flat hours and go all the way down to 12 min in the late evening.
3) Like I said in the first point high frequency is a no go especially when you can barely maintain trains in service. The advantage of frequency fluctuation between the morning and afternoon rush hours is that you can take trains out and do minor check-ups, repairs, and potentially decrease the rate of breakdowns on trains. It also increases the capacity of response when a breakdown actually happens, because lower frequency means that you have more space to fix a problem and give a better response for that matter. Less trains therefore less people would then be affected and recovery to normal service frequencies would take a less amount of time.

All of this to say that we need to better manage our system and adapt more to demande in order to give a better and more reliable offer to the customers. I don't mind waiting longer for a train if I know that in the end it benefits the overall health of the service and that RTM can do it's job of maintaining the network correctly.

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by TheMatth69

I could go on many things about this network but one of the things that chocks me is how we manage frequency of service throughout the day.
For having been on many systems around the world (Paris, Lyon, London, Munich, Montreal, Toulouse) Ottawa is literally the only network I've been on that keeps high frequency (rush hour like frequency) during flat hours and early evening. 5 minutes gap between trains is way too much for me and one of the reasons RTG is failing to keep the fleet in check. Let me explain :
1) By keeping such high frequencies you ad more kilometers and stress to the trains, meaning faster wear of the weels, more chances that a train will eventually encounter technical problems and less time to deal with the issues since maintenance time can only be done correctly after 8pm when frequency falls down to 7mins and more.
2) High frequency during flat hours means empty trains, the Confederation line in its current stage is basically a very low density transit system and trains barely fill up during the day. Less trains and less frequency would make trains carry more passenger per train which is something you're looking for when you built a metro or a Light-Metro (like us). Furthermore Montreal for exemple is a great exemple of frequency fluctuations and adaptation to demand throughout the day. Trains run every 4 to 5 mins on rush hours, and frequency can fall down to 7 or 8 mins during flat hours and go all the way down to 12 min in the late evening.
3) Like I said in the first point high frequency is a no go especially when you can barely maintain trains in service. The advantage of frequency fluctuation between the morning and afternoon rush hours is that you can take trains out and do minor check-ups, repairs, and potentially decrease the rate of breakdowns on trains. It also increases the capacity of response when a breakdown actually happens, because lower frequency means that you have more space to fix a problem and give a better response for that matter. Less trains therefore less people would then be affected and recovery to normal service frequencies would take a less amount of time.

All of this to say that we need to better manage our system and adapt more to demande in order to give a better and more reliable offer to the customers. I don't mind waiting longer for a train if I know that in the end it benefits the overall health of the service and that RTM can do it's job of maintaining the network correctly.

High frequency is not the problem, the real problem is the city didn't order enough trains and started line 1 below the old transitway capacity. In my opinion frequency during peak needs to be at every 3 min then 5 min off peak.

[rocketphish]

OC Transpo updates its O-Train busking program

Bruce Deachman, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: February 21, 2020

Johnny, rosin up your bow and play your fiddle hard, ’cause the O-Train cars are coming, but you’ll need an ID card.

OC Transpo on Friday unveiled some of the details of its O-Train Line 1 Busking Program, which, according to a memo from John Manconi, the city’s Transportation Services Department general manager, “will bring local musical entertainment, vibrancy and a sense of community to O-Train Line 1 stations.”

The memo, addressed to the mayor, councillors and transit commission members, notes that the main objective of the program is to define “the selection, approval, registration, scheduling and on-going management of busking activities.”

The program will include an annual application and audition process using a selection committee made up of local music industry professionals; designated locations with appropriate signage; limited performance time to encourage variety; online scheduling; restrictions on age, sound levels, instruments and amplification; and a photo-ID permit listing conditions and penalties for breaching those conditions.

The program is expected to launch this spring, with online applications available at ottawa.ca from Monday, Feb. 24, until March 27.

[email protected]

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/oc-transpo-updates-its-o-train-busking-program

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

High frequency is not the problem, the real problem is the city didn't order enough trains and started line 1 below the old transitway capacity. In my opinion frequency during peak needs to be at every 3 min then 5 min off peak.

How many more trains are needed for that frequency?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

OC Transpo updates its O-Train busking program

Bruce Deachman, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: February 21, 2020

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/oc-transpo-updates-its-o-train-busking-program

This sort of bureaucracy kills all the fun. It's a recipe for over-rehearsed, artificial shows instead of the urban entertainment we see in say, Montreal.

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

High frequency is not the problem, the real problem is the city didn't order enough trains and started line 1 below the old transitway capacity.

I wonder what the daily active fleet vs spare ratio is in other cities.

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

This sort of bureaucracy kills all the fun. It's a recipe for over-rehearsed, artificial shows instead of the urban entertainment we see in say, Montreal.



I wonder what the daily active fleet vs spare ratio is in other cities.

Very good question

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

How many more trains are needed for that frequency?

Approximately 2. 15 trains would supposedly operate between 3-4 minutes apart.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

Approximately 2. 15 trains would supposedly operate between 3-4 minutes apart.

How many more trains will we need to maintain service at that frequency? Yes, we will need 15 trains running to achieve 3 to 4 minute frequency. But with the issues we have been having, will we need more than 2 additional trains to provide reliable service at that frequency?

On the issue of off-peak frequency, if we reduce frequency, then we will be running with less service than during the Transitway days. This is a lose-lose scenario. We spend billions for less service, more transfers and worse connections. This is already the complaint.

I am already expecting worse service once Phase 2 is implemented because of the cost of operating the trains is so high. Bus service will take another hit.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

High frequency is not the problem, the real problem is the city didn't order enough trains and started line 1 below the old transitway capacity. In my opinion frequency during peak needs to be at every 3 min then 5 min off peak.

This. Very much this. Their spare ratio was messed too. They should have overspared for Stage 1. And then allowed a reduction as experience dictated what the appropriate spare ratio was. I look at Stage 2. And I think they are still underspared.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I am already expecting worse service once Phase 2 is implemented because of the cost of operating the trains is so high. Bus service will take another hit.

I wouldn't be worried. The fixed costs don't go up much. And extending the trains all the way to Moodie, Baseline and Orleans drastically cuts deadheading and the share of passenger miles on the bus. Stage 1 was always going to be bad because the fixed costs are so high. The cost per passenger-mile on the rail network should drop in Stage 2.

[OtrainUser]

Just to clarify my position is that the city should be operating with 18 trains with 4 spares. If they did this, I'm sure that would have had far less problems. As I had said before it's just my opinion on the situation with line 1.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

Just to clarify my position is that the city should be operating with 18 trains with 4 spares. If they did this, I'm sure that would have had far less problems. As I had said before it's just my opinion on the situation with line 1.

And your wish may very well come true in the near future since they'll be adding Stage 2 trains to the active fleet.

Like I mentioned several posts ago, train 14 and 15 in peak periods are only coming once those Stage 2 trains are active.

[Truenorth00]

Given their current issues, I think they need 19 trains.

I wonder if having more trains will finally help them determine the real spare ratio. I wonder how many Stage 2 trains will be allowed in to service early.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

Just to clarify my position is that the city should be operating with 18 trains with 4 spares. If they did this, I'm sure that would have had far less problems. As I had said before it's just my opinion on the situation with line 1.

So, is it a cost cutting measurement not to have spares?

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

So, is it a cost cutting measurement not to have spares?

I think it was a cost cutting measurement to start line 1 early before it was ready.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

I think it was a cost cutting measurement to start line 1 early before it was ready.

Hopefully theya re learnign their lesson and will have the right amount for the opening of Phase 2.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Given their current issues, I think they need 19 trains.

I wonder if having more trains will finally help them determine the real spare ratio. I wonder how many Stage 2 trains will be allowed in to service early.

Have we ordered enough trains for Stage 2 or are we going to face a space crises again at that time? Clearly 2 spares for Phase 1 was not enough.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Have we ordered enough trains for Stage 2 or are we going to face a space crises again at that time? Clearly 2 spares for Phase 1 was not enough.

I'm assuming they ordered the same inadequate active to spare ratio.

Even Trillium has always had a superior ration 2/1 initially, and now it's 4/2 compared to Confederation's planned 15/2, which ended up as 13/4, which is still not sufficient.

It's like the City didn't even bother referring to the rail line they had been operating for 12 (and now 20) years.

[TheMatth69]

Noticed they drastically decreased the speed between uOttawa and Lees for trains going eastbound. The section used to be operated at maximum operating speed (80km/h), however the track is going downhill and the trains have to brake very hard in order to stop at Lees. Maybe they did that to reduce wheel flattening. Also noticed a couple of new speed restrictions... So are we now to the point where trains run slower to avoid our poorly built LRVs any further breakdowns ? That's a shame.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by TheMatth69

Noticed they drastically decreased the speed between uOttawa and Lees for trains going eastbound. The section used to be operated at maximum operating speed (80km/h), however the track is going downhill and the trains have to brake very hard in order to stop at Lees. Maybe they did that to reduce wheel flattening. Also noticed a couple of new speed restrictions... So are we now to the point where trains run slower to avoid our poorly built LRVs any further breakdowns ? That's a shame.

I've noticed something similar: in my experience the speed seems inconsistent throughout the line, with the exception with maybe the downtown subway portion.