Olympic Village & Southeast False Creek Updates Discussion

[Vin]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

LOL what's missing a mall?

You said it, not me.

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

SEFC Plan:
"Southeast False Creek is designed as a mixed-use community with a total population of 11,000 – 13,000 people, with a focus on residential housing.

As a complete neighbourhood – with the 2010 Olympic Village at its core – Southeast False Creek will have goods and services within walking distance, and housing and jobs that are accessible by transit."

Hence a huge mistake, especially for a waterfront district. There are already plenty of those around.

Originally Posted by Changing City

They go there to appreciate the high density housing developments that aren't just tall, featureless boxes.

Lol. Seriously, stop kidding yourself already. Majority of OV buildings are short, featureless boxes.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Could it be stated that Mt Pleasant is formally undergoing gentrification? If yes, that would be a pivotal change in the city.

Mount Pleasant is a better place to live, TBH. Older city plans allowed more mix-type retailing and services in the neighbourhood, although newer policies are crippling its potential to grow.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by Vin

Mount Pleasant is a better place to live, TBH. Older city plans allowed more mix-type retailing and services in the neighbourhood, although newer policies are crippling its potential to grow.

Older policies, for the most part.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

Lol. Seriously, stop kidding yourself already. Majority of OV buildings are short, featureless boxes.

There are still vacant units in the OV. Maybe if one was an opticians you could appreciate the higher densities than Brentwood, and the interesting architectural details.

[logan5]

What makes OV a better planned neighbourhood is the minimal amount of blighting roadspace. Suterbrook Village in Coquitlam, which has towers, has a very similar feel to OV.

[giallo]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Yes it's very busy and getting busier, with plenty of new offices under construction.

I've always liked Mt. Pleasant, but I'm not familiar with the office developments in the area. Anything of note?

[officedweller]

Down the hill at 6th, 5th and Main.
WeWork, Hootesuite, etc

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by giallo

I've always liked Mt. Pleasant, but I'm not familiar with the office developments in the area. Anything of note?

Altogether there are 10 projects under construction at the moment, with over 500,000 sq. ft. of space. The two largest are Westbank's Main Space, (the first of four new buildings they're planning there) and Cressey's 425 West 6th. Many of the other buildings have a main floor of industrial space, and upper office floors. The most recently completed is Nickel on W5th. There are at least 10 more projects that have been approved and are likely to be completed by the end of 2022, with over 350,000 sq. ft more office space (plus industrial space).

(There are other office projects near City Hall, and on the False Creek Flats, on the edge of Mount Pleasant).

For comparison purposes, that's more office space currently under construction in Mount Pleasant than in Burnaby and Surrey combined.

[logan5]

With ever increasing demand for office space, we could eventually see the Mt Pleasant industrial lands become Vancouver's second major CBD. Good Skytrain connections, and the right area for it to develop into a true office tower node. Broadway would be too linear to get that proper CBD feel.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Altogether there are 10 projects under construction at the moment, with over 500,000 sq. ft. of space. The two largest are Westbank's Main Space, (the first of four new buildings they're planning there) and Cressey's 425 West 6th. Many of the other buildings have a main floor of industrial space, and upper office floors. The most recently completed is Nickel on W5th. There are at least 10 more projects that have been approved and are likely to be completed by the end of 2022, with over 350,000 sq. ft more office space (plus industrial space).

Thanks, great summary.

The result of a blanket rezoning perhaps?

Does this area have a name? It's Cambie to Main, 2nd to Broadway. It's just a smaller piece of the traditional "Mt Pleasant" area.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Thanks, great summary.

The result of a blanket rezoning perhaps?

Does this area have a name? It's Cambie to Main, 2nd to Broadway. It's just a smaller piece of the traditional "Mt Pleasant" area.

It's known as the Mount Pleasant Industrial Area. The zoning doesn't allow residential uses any more, and varies at the edges. The blocks between Yukon and Cambie, and between Quebec and Main allow higher densities than the rest of the area. The zoning designation hasn't changed in the central area, but what the zoning allows to be built was tweaked as a result of the Metro Core plan for employment areas about 10 years ago. Previously developers could have 1 FSR of office, in buildings up to 3 FSR. With the changed zoning they can build up to 2 FSR of office, but only if they provide 1 FSR of industrial space on the main floor. With recent inceased demand from smaller businesses, it has resulted in the significant uptake in development over the past few years. It doesn't force all the existing commercial and industrial firms to leave the area, which was likely if higher densities of office had been allowed. Some of the production space is occupieed by food businesses, and they're allowed small cafes to offer services to the area, but in conjunction with larger commercial operations. The Terra Bread cafe is in front of their main bakery for example, it's not a stand-alone cafe.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Changing City

The Terra Bread cafe is in front of their main bakery for example, it's not a stand-alone cafe.

For sure. That and Fife are the same idea I think. Lots of small breweries and food spots in the area that fit in well. Still lots of surface parking and other parcels that could easily be developed.

[GenWhy?]

I've run into a talked to about 3 separate family landholders of various properties in the MP Industrial area and more lots will come online to develop as current auto-orientated businesses and 1-storey buildings can no longer support what the properties are worth / taxes. So much more land there is just on the cusp of a generational transition to build way more job space. Some are up to 100 feet of frontage.

And it's interesting to see such large arch. firms like GBL swap from one new space to another recently just a few blocks down, and vid FX DNEG not having enough space for its current workforce.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

I've run into a talked to about 3 separate family landholders of various properties in the MP Industrial area and more lots will come online to develop as current auto-orientated businesses and 1-storey buildings can no longer support what the properties are worth / taxes. So much more land there is just on the cusp of a generational transition to build way more job space. Some are up to 100 feet of frontage.

And it's interesting to see such large arch. firms like GBL swap from one new space to another recently just a few blocks down, and vid FX DNEG not having enough space for its current workforce.

That combined with the St. Paul's move will put a ton of pressure for even more housing in that area. I guess we will see how things develop along Main St. At least it's a convergence of all 3 skytrain lines (sort of).

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by Vin

Hence a huge mistake, especially for a waterfront district. There are already plenty of those around.

Though being a mistake and being successful as it was planned don't rule one or the other out.

I think about 1/3 of the area is undeveloped still - most of it City land and I think it's a matter of funds?

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

That combined with the St. Paul's move will put a ton of pressure for even more housing in that area. I guess we will see how things develop along Main St. At least it's a convergence of all 3 skytrain lines (sort of).

There's been a tonne of pressure over housing into The Flats and I'm hoping we'll see that increase from where the moved it up a notch as well as into the other I District Schedules south of 2nd Ave.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

There's been a tonne of pressure over housing into The Flats and I'm hoping we'll see that increase from where the moved it up a notch as well as into the other I District Schedules south of 2nd Ave.

Most (but not) of the Flats, and all of the Mount Pleasant Industrial area doesn't allow any housing, and if we want to preserve any of the industrial or commercial potential (as well as what's there now), it shouldn't. As soon as residential is allowed, the land value shoots up even higher and the taxes go up to reflect that, forcing businesses to close down or move away.

There are very few areas of the city that are for employment only, and they're protected in the Regional Plan, as they need to be. The whole of the rest of the city has the potential for housing, and the Citywide Plan might allow greater densities in those areas.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by logan5

With ever increasing demand for office space, we could eventually see the Mt Pleasant industrial lands become Vancouver's second major CBD. Good Skytrain connections, and the right area for it to develop into a true office tower node. Broadway would be too linear to get that proper CBD feel.

For that to happen, there needs to be massive rezoning: not just along the arterials, but also the parallel and perpendicular streets for at least 2 to 3 blocks either sides of the arterial. Otherwise it will be the same old provincial town neighbourhood, busy, but never catching up with the times.

Originally Posted by Changing City

Most (but not) of the Flats, and all of the Mount Pleasant Industrial area doesn't allow any housing, and if we want to preserve any of the industrial or commercial potential (as well as what's there now), it shouldn't. As soon as residential is allowed, the land value shoots up even higher and the taxes go up to reflect that, forcing businesses to close down or move away.

There are very few areas of the city that are for employment only, and they're protected in the Regional Plan, as they need to be. The whole of the rest of the city has the potential for housing, and the Citywide Plan might allow greater densities in those areas.

Preserving all the remaining industrial land necessity near the CBD core is simply an overrated hype and not at all necessary here. Go see what world class city does with their industrial land. They are flexible by making the outlying ones more compact, and turning those near commercial and residential cores into better and more flexible uses, etc. We have lots of underutilized industrial lands around here. Take the Canada line train and before you cross the bridge into Richmond, look around to see how the big swathes of vacant lands are being utilized: basically nothing. Even the old warehouse districts north of East Hastings from downtown towards Burnaby are underutilised. These could house innovation centres and compact non-polluting, non-primary industry factories of the future. Mount Pleasant area should not be an industrial land: it should be an office/mixed use district that can house a lot of people and businesses.

Even Burnaby and Richmond are realizing this and now turning basically industrial parks into the next town or city centre. People here are often sold half truths and they just accept it without questioning.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

Preserving all the remaining industrial land necessity near the CBD core is simply an overrated hype and not at all necessary here. Go see what world class city does with their industrial land. They are flexible by making the outlying ones more compact, and turning those near commercial and residential cores into better and more flexible uses, etc. We have lots of underutilized industrial lands around here. Take the Canada line train and before you cross the bridge into Richmond, look around to see how the big swathes of vacant lands are being utilized: basically nothing.

Even Burnaby and Richmond are realizing this and now turning basically industrial parks into the next town or city centre. People here are often sold half truths and they just accept it without questioning.

We're not preserving all the existing industrial land. This is the Olympic Village and Southeast False Creek thread. All of that area was industrial, and some still is, but won't be in future. All the new condo and rental buildings on Main Street between 2nd and 7th Avenues used to be industrial zoned, and now they allow residential over retail.

The few pockets of commercial zoning we have left (almost none are strictly industrial), are important to allow services to be locally supplied and to continue to grow the economy. They represent a tiny proportion of the city's land area - apart from the city's parks, the rest is all available for housing.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Most (but not) of the Flats, and all of the Mount Pleasant Industrial area doesn't allow any housing, and if we want to preserve any of the industrial or commercial potential (as well as what's there now), it shouldn't. As soon as residential is allowed, the land value shoots up even higher and the taxes go up to reflect that, forcing businesses to close down or move away.

There are very few areas of the city that are for employment only, and they're protected in the Regional Plan, as they need to be. The whole of the rest of the city has the potential for housing, and the Citywide Plan might allow greater densities in those areas.

Sorry, referring to the I-C3 that was changed in The Flats but not on the other side of 1st. Currently they allow "artist studio" at 2.5 FSR, which is condos. We're in talks on some I-3 lots that if they have an affordability / studio component might get traction. Lot by case basis.