DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[The Dirt]

[RyanD]

I do a pretty good job keeping DenverInfill's Instagram up to date. It's super non-committal and it's all the development candy you'd ever want.

https://www.instagram.com/denverinfill/

@denverinfill

[SirLucasTheGreat]

Ryan is on top of it when it comes to DenverInfill's social media accounts, especially Instagram. I don't really care about the longer discussions here but I think Reddit offers infinitely better functionality than this forum when it comes to organizing those discussions in a manner that allows them not to obscure the actual development news. Hell, I'm down for Reddit even just to get more photos from others that live in Denver.

[RyanD]

^ I've also been tossing around the idea of doing guest posts on Instagram so it would be more crowd sourced. Not sure yet if I want to take that on.

[TakeFive]

Why wouldn't Denver Infill be the perfect antidote?

You get the best development news including Ryan's great photos accompanied by primarily architectural opinions which you needn't even bother reading. That's how I've looked at the difference in both sites.

For whatever reason Denver has a lot of passionate and opinionated people. This is especially clear if you're a sports fan. Whether it's the Broncos, the Nuggets or the Avalanche where there's ~30 different teams per league, among the SB Nation of sports blogs, Denver threads are always in the top tier of busiest blogs.

RyanD's instincts are good IMO in that development density is central to the topic. In year's past I've witnessed more than a few totally offbeat discussions. But they could be entertaining.

I've followed real estate and development since 1980 in Denver. Two periods stand out. The decade following late 1986 for its real estate bust and recovery. The happier period got going after the Great Recession and continues apace.

There's been such a sea change since the Great Recession. So much is now controlled by the accumulated wealth of the Wall Street crowd (to pick a scapegoat) and change has been rapid in historical terms. But that accumulated wealth has also enabled all the development. While each place is unique, I can't think of three cities that have experienced more change than Austin, Denver and Seattle.

In any case and regardless of differing opinions we are all passionate about Denver, its challenges and its future.

[The Dirt]

Well, I've been here since 1992 and all I know is that the version of vBulletin used by Skyscraperpage hasn't been updated since then. I'm surprised that this site is even still up because it feels like it's being held up by rubber bands and popsicle sticks.

[TakeFive]

Updating the landscape

Well, I tried. After getting my med refills and finishing my Spring Planting, I used Denver Infills's Roundups as a source looking for new projects that were either leasing or pre-leasing units. BTW, I love the new Roundup format.

If there was one out there then I missed it (entirely possible). It appears that over the summer there will be several new apartments far enough along for pre-leasing or even leasing their 1st units. By the end of the year others will join in.

If they could permit these projects in half the current time it takes there could be a lot more projects under construction. Not really criticizing the process so much as just recognizing that there's a ton of projects moving slowly through the approval process.

The other factor if you think about it is that in recent years the projects are often double the size of a few years ago - certainly in their vertical profile.

Originally Posted by The Dirt

Well, I've been here since 1992 and all I know is that the version of vBulletin used by Skyscraperpage hasn't been updated since then. I'm surprised that this site is even still up because it feels like it's being held up by rubber bands and popsicle sticks.

I know.

[DenvertoLA]

subreddit joined. let's keep it interesting

[SnyderBock]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

According to Chris Cillizza the earth is indeed moving.

Billionaires are the problem, not the solution. Ever since the Citizens United ruling, billionaires have discovered that they can buy our elections and vote themselves richer. So why on Earth would another billionaire be surging in the polls? I don't think I will ever understand what goes on in the minds of the vast majority of people. We're talking a solid 65% of the entire voting population that is now planning to vote for a billionaire (either Trump or Bloomberg). These billionaires are so out of touch with the working class. This is mind boggling.

My 2 cents, back to topic...

Development news:

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

It’s easy to talk about changing policy. But what needs to change is the politics, and that’s a hell of a lot harder...

Give it two decades (at most) until the boomers die off or have to take public transit to community meetings, then we'll solve this.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by fleury

THANK YOU. Been following these threads since 07. Has never been this boring. Ya'll are so woke now.

Maybe it's a sign of the slow down? Not enough development news...

Anyone know what's going on in Fox Station?!?! I'm anxious to see what happens with all that ground RTD employees bought decades ago that they've yet to monetize!

[SirLucasTheGreat]

Originally Posted by laniroj

Maybe it's a sign of the slow down? Not enough development news...

Anyone know what's going on in Fox Station?!?! I'm anxious to see what happens with all that ground RTD employees bought decades ago that they've yet to monetize!

Honestly I think Q1 2020 has been pretty exciting and active from a development standpoint:

1). One Platte broke ground,

2). X3 looks to be starting, which should make it the tallest building under construction other than Block 162,

3). WTC is getting started,

4). McGregor Square topped out,

5). An 18-story hotel in DTC is getting started,

6). There are a million projects getting ready to take off (Marriot Downtown, 13th and Glenarm hotel, 20-story DTC Kimpton Hotel, Gates District, The Current, Watershed, Kenect Denver, etc...)

[wong21fr]

Also the Great Hall project at DIA is resuming- after a six month delay:

Denver just hired a company for $195 million to make the airport’s Great Hall great (or at least finished)


It will be nice to see this city project, as well as the convention center expansion, start making material progress again after such embarrassing headaches project management-wise.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by DenvertoLA

subreddit joined. let's keep it interesting

Got to actually have people post to keep things interesting. The naysayers on this thread have done very little in terms of contributing posts, original content, articles, etc. They're content consumers without contributing much to the public sphere. It does get quite boring when the same one person posts and then three other people counterposts.

The subreddit is a good idea. Looks like it already has a bit of traction.

EDIT: Damn. No wonder people wanted a subreddit- some straight up karma whores over there (looking at you coolmandan03).

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by laniroj

Maybe it's a sign of the slow down? Not enough development news...

Anyone know what's going on in Fox Station?!?! I'm anxious to see what happens with all that ground RTD employees bought decades ago that they've yet to monetize!

I think that it's more that this forum has matured quite a bit and users no longer spend days arguing over the facade of a five-story apartment building or daydreaming about Trango Tower. So much development has occurred that we're no longer fighting over scrapes and putting energy into what-ifs. The lack of major, transformative public projects also dampens enthusiasm.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by coolmandan03

Why not relocate to a Reddit DevelopmentDenver thread? We could more easily manage conversations (where TakeFive, wong21fr, and The Dirt could continue their own conversations in a post) and we could continue discussion on Denver Development?

It's also easier to quote and post images now directly to the feed. I started a subreddit here (that probably wont take off):

https://www.reddit.com/r/DevelopmentDenver/

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Got to actually have people post to keep things interesting. The naysayers on this thread have done very little in terms of contributing posts, original content, articles, etc. They're content consumers without contributing much to the public sphere. It does get quite boring when the same one person posts and then three other people counterposts.

The subreddit is a good idea. Looks like it already has a bit of traction.

Yes, absolutely I hope it works well for those who want to pursue this. As a free market guy there's no shortage of media sources.

This site has survived for going on 20 years despite "being held up by rubber bands and popsicle sticks." As you point out, typical discussion topics have continued to evolve.

[coolmandan03]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Got to actually have people post to keep things interesting. The naysayers on this thread have done very little in terms of contributing posts, original content, articles, etc. They're content consumers without contributing much to the public sphere. It does get quite boring when the same one person posts and then three other people counterposts.

The subreddit is a good idea. Looks like it already has a bit of traction.

EDIT: Damn. No wonder people wanted a subreddit- some straight up karma whores over there (looking at you coolmandan03).

1) I think people would post more if it was easy to sort and add content (I think we can all agree that adding photos of new developments to this site isn't easy). Especially large photos. And then those get placed directly in the middle of a different/interesting conversation.

2) I'm trying to add as much content as possible to get it started so it's not a blank page that no one is interested in.

3) It's fine if you don't want to join - I'll still check here and take the info being discussed to put on the sub and continue the conversation there to a wider audience.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by coolmandan03

3) It's fine if you don't want to join - I'll still check here and take the info being discussed to put on the sub and continue the conversation there to a wider audience.

Hey, I joined almost as soon as it was created. Reddit is the better platform for the reasons you mentioned- just hope the Denver Fugly crowd doesn’t flood the subreddit with crap.

[coolmandan03]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

just hope the Denver Fugly crowd doesn’t flood the subreddit with crap.

I plan on keeping it pretty Development related - but don't plan to remove discussion about RTD and TOD on there (in their own post). No missing dogs, no politics, and no news (unless development oriented).

[TakeFive]

The River Mile

Hat Tip to the new Reddit site where I picked up a link to one of 5280's very long, meandering but often well done pieces. It's primarily about "who is Rhys Duggan and how did we get to the River Mile." Since there's no comments over there but definitely some interesting factoids it's worth highlighting a few of them.

Inside One of the Largest Redevelopments in Denver’s History
5280 FEBRUARY 2020 BY ROBERT SANCHEZ

The article speaks to Duggan's quiet but soothing personality. Whether it was this and/or great timing the whole key was Duggan became aware that Elitches Park may be available for sale. Timing is everything.

Apparently Duggan already had an Equity Partner he had worked with. It's Vancouver-based Second City Real Estate. They've been primarily connected to 2nd Tier "mid-sized markets," just the type of project Duggan had done. Duggan became acquainted with Kroenke RE when he sold "the 98,794-square-foot Belleview Promenade retail center in Greenwood Village for $49 million" to Kroenke's group. Kroeke's potential interest in the Elitches site is obvious.

There is a long row to hoe going forward.

Revesco needs to work out a complicated list of infrastructure requirements with the city that include sewer systems, drainage, and street layout,

This is being done and is just part of the early complicated stuff. More interesting and tricky is this:

As part of an extensive rehabilitation, the South Platte will be dredged and deepened up to eight additional feet to ease flooding concerns in the area and then lined, in parts, with new vegetation. The portion of the river project adjacent to the River Mile will require scooping out tens of thousands of tons of silt and sand, with the help of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, at an estimated cost of nearly $50 to $60 million.

Although the article is very long it is well worth the read; lots of information and background.