Vancouver Infill & Lowrise Updates Discussion

[Ailurus]

This appeared on the front door of my apartment building. Has this been posted yet?

[Hmoob]

Originally Posted by Ailurus

This appeared on the front door of my apartment building. Has this been posted yet?

So that is going through...

The current building at 349 E 6th had some expensive maintenance coming up and I know the strata was talking about selling and getting paid out (heard from a friend formerly in the building). I guess they got agreement. This will be a great location for the additional density close to two upcoming skytrain stations.

[Feathered Friend]

Heart Warming Homes Prove To Be A Bright Spot In The Shadows Of A Cold Winters Night

1425 and 1451 East 12th Avenue
As Darren and I made our way through the snow to this open house, I wondered if we would be the only ones in attendance. Worse still, I feared due to this weather, the city might cancel this event, like they did with a different meeting earlier this year. In contrast, Darren wondered if those opposed to a similar non-market housing proposal by this non-profit society at 2924 Venables Street would come out to this meeting as well.

Admittedly, neither of us understand the position of those individuals, as this proponent has made it a priority to look after their tenants in the five buildings they plan to renew and grow. All of the residents have been found new homes to live in during the construction process, and will be allowed to come back at their current rents too. This has left us wondering if we are overlooking something, but if we are, we did not find it here.

https://cityduo.wordpress.com/2020/02/14...-in-the-shadows-of-a-cold-winters-night/

[scryer]

Originally Posted by Feathered Friend

https://cityduo.wordpress.com/2020/02/14...-in-the-shadows-of-a-cold-winters-night/

As much as I complain about the COV shooting itself in the foot with its arbitrary height policies, I must admit that there are a bunch of these infill projects popping up all over the city that are pushing the envelope in these neighbourhoods. A 6 story building in a sea of SFH's is a great way to introduce changes to an SFH heavy neighbourhood. It wouldn't surprise me if this project would open doors for other developments geared towards the tax-paying public.

[TheTerminalCity]

The rain today has been my excuse to post a few photo updates from mid-January.

11/Main (been under construction for yeaaaaaaaaaaaars)


20/Main


photos are mine

[bc2mb]

DP filed for some Cambie Corridor infill.. hope to see more of this.

https://urbanyvr.com/cambie-corridor-plan-townhouses

[logan5]

This is what should be the norm for all of the CoV. There is also housing product like this in the Norquay neighbourhood, and being that they are ground oriented wood structures, you get more for your money compared to high-rise units. Townhouses come out in such limited supply though, that they end being a lot ore expensive than they should. Unlocking the entire City to townhouse development would make for much more competitive pricing.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by bc2mb

DP filed for some Cambie Corridor infill.. hope to see more of this.

https://urbanyvr.com/cambie-corridor-plan-townhouses

This is what should be the norm for all of the CoV. There is also housing product like this in the Norquay neighbourhood, and being that they are ground oriented wood structures, you get more for your money compared to high-rise units. Townhouses come out in such limited supply though, that they end being a lot ore expensive than they should. Unlocking the entire City to townhouse development would make for much more competitive pricing.

I agree with all of the above. We need these kinds of developments balls-deep in the SFH NIMBY neighbourhoods if we are to climb out of this housing crisis. This is literally 10x the density in such a small area, on a street that isn't some major arterial which is such a step in the right direction.

More, more, more of these. And could we get some stacked townhouses as well?

[Changing City]

There are already over 400 units submitted last year in projects like this in Cambie Phase 3, and more in Marpole, Grandview Woodland and Norquay. There are at least the same number of units approved as rezonings last year in the Cambie Plan area, but not yet submitted for Development Permits.

While it's true that six plots of land will become 62 freehold homes, those six plots could each have had a suite and a laneway house, so we've traded 12 potential rental units for more ownership units.

If you count the structures, I think there are 38, so most of these are stacked, with 1-bed units accessed from the courtyard, and 2 and 3-bed townhouses on top with doors onto W28th or the lane. I don't know how affordable they're going to be, compared to say a new unit in River District. They'll have underground parking, so there will be excavation and concrete construction costs before the woodframe residential floors.

A site like this would cost (I'm guessing) around $20m to assemble, - EDIT - the assembled site is valued at $23.5m, which presumably reflects the price the developer paid - so with construction, soft costs and a reasonable developer profit it's unlikely they'll sell for much under $1,000 a square foot. That's cheaper than a new condo on Cambie, but it's not super affordable - although where is, with Burnaby and even Surrey projects selling at a similar per square foot cost?

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Changing City

While it's true that six plots of land will become 62 freehold homes, those six plots could each have had a suite and a laneway house, so we've traded 12 potential rental units for more ownership units.

A blanket density uplift would allow for lowrise apartments and MIRHs too, wouldn't it?

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

A blanket density uplift would allow for lowrise apartments and MIRHs too, wouldn't it?

If you are suggesting that, I would probably agree, although I doubt most people in Vancouver would go for it. There would no doubt be a colossal NIMBY uproar.

[giallo]

Originally Posted by bc2mb

DP filed for some Cambie Corridor infill.. hope to see more of this.

https://urbanyvr.com/cambie-corridor-plan-townhouses

37 units on a half block, and it's all at a "human scale". Like others have mentioned, this sort of design needs to be implemented absolutely everywhere in the city.

My only complaint is that the one bedroom units seem to outnumber the 2 and 3 bedroom ones. I'd much rather have the family-size units (3 bedroom) be more prevalent.

[TheTerminalCity]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

A blanket density uplift would allow for lowrise apartments and MIRHs too, wouldn't it?

You'd need some type of incentive structure still...the basic math underlying MIRH, rental apartments, or condos, if all the FSR is the same, would support condos. It would only be a few limited types of developers doing the other types of tenures.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by scryer

I agree with all of the above. We need these kinds of developments balls-deep in the SFH NIMBY neighbourhoods if we are to climb out of this housing crisis. This is literally 10x the density in such a small area, on a street that isn't some major arterial which is such a step in the right direction.

More, more, more of these. And could we get some stacked townhouses as well?

Yes! More of this, in all neighborhoods! This is great.

This would work great on the east side where the assembly cost would be 40% less.

[misher]

Originally Posted by TheTerminalCity

You'd need some type of incentive structure still...the basic math underlying MIRH, rental apartments, or condos, if all the FSR is the same, would support condos. It would only be a few limited types of developers doing the other types of tenures.

Meh if we can’t even get density by our skytrain stations why discuss it in sfh neighborhoods or viewcones.

I’m hoping the upcoming Broadway plan is a wakeup call to the city but who knows.

[Hmoob]

Originally Posted by misher

Meh if we can’t even get density by our skytrain stations why discuss it in sfh neighborhoods or viewcones.

I’m hoping the upcoming Broadway plan is a wakeup call to the city but who knows.

Agreed in hoping that the Broadway plan adds enough density.

But we should absolutely be pushing for more density in sfh districts like posted by bc2mb. It's the most efficient way to add density to the city. Someone can check me on this, but I expect rezoning even half of the sfh land in Vancouver to this sort of build form would provide us enough additional housing to get us through the next couple of decades of growth. This development starts to move people away from the idea that we should have expansive sfh neighborhoods near the city center. Once we break that, we open more areas to redevelopment of this scale.

$23.5 million for the land sounds significant, but that's not much more than what one might expect to pay based on the lot size of each of the homes being replaced. And you're not going to convince homeowners to sell without offering them some incentive. This rezoning doesn't add to the price of land in Vancouver. It makes the best use of this block as the market has already anticipated.

The best part, if we can get wholesale rezoning to allow these sorts of developments going forward, it eases the shortage of developable land in the city. Yes we have a geographically defined land constraint, but beyond that we have a shortage of developable land. It's the limited supply that drives the cost, basic economics. If we open the supply of developable land prices will normalize. Sure the first few sellers will get a windfall. After that, developers will have their choice of where to build and will have greater ability to influence their land input cost. Speculating gets less interesting/profitable when your commodity is available in excess.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Hmoob

... But we should absolutely be pushing for more density in sfh districts like posted by bc2mb. It's the most efficient way to add density to the city. Someone can check me on this, but I expect rezoning even half of the sfh land in Vancouver to this sort of build form would provide us enough additional housing to get us through the next couple of decades of growth. This development starts to move people away from the idea that we should have expansive sfh neighborhoods near the city center. Once we break that, we open more areas to redevelopment of this scale...

Sounds about right. The 2016 census has 282,355 Vancouverites living in SFHs. A blanket upzoning to this level of density could add anywhere between 560,000 and 2,600,000 new homes in the CoV - and now that we've got the overseas buyer market somewhat under control, now's a great time to get at least a chunk of that number.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Sounds about right. The 2016 census has 282,355 Vancouverites living in SFHs. A blanket upzoning to this level of density could add anywhere between 560,000 and 2,600,000 new homes in the CoV - and now that we've got the overseas buyer market somewhat under control, now's a great time to get at least a chunk of that number.

That data is for Metro Vancouver, not the City of Vancouver, and it's the number of single family dwellings, not the population. The City of Vancouver has 41,330 single family homes. If it was ever agreed to upzone to allow this sort of density then you might add up to 100,000 more homes, although that would take decades to actually happen. (And if this scheme was the basis, half would be 1-bed apartments)

[rofina]

Originally Posted by Changing City

That data is for Metro Vancouver, not the City of Vancouver, and it's the number of single family dwellings, not the population. The City of Vancouver has 41,330 single family homes. If it was ever agreed to upzone to allow this sort of density then you might add up to 100,000 more homes, although that would take decades to actually happen.

The production time on a 2 story town home is fraction that of a high-rise.

This is easily the best solution to our ills, for various reasons.

For one, if this was a blanket rezoing to every SFH block in Vancouver 3 things happen immediately;

1. Land speculation is dead. You know exactly what you can build. No rezoning process. No variances. No density bonus'.
2. Condo market takes a significant hit as many buyers re-prioritize this type of dwelling.
3. Above 2 have a knock on effect and reduce the cost of assemblies, thereby reducing costs on all housing units.

There would be no negatives from this, beyond changing neighborhood character.

[Hmoob]

Originally Posted by Changing City

That data is for Metro Vancouver, not the City of Vancouver, and it's the number of single family dwellings, not the population. The City of Vancouver has 41,330 single family homes. If it was ever agreed to upzone to allow this sort of density then you might add up to 100,000 more homes, although that would take decades to actually happen.

Thank you, Changing City, for again providing meaningful data to the forum.

Looking at those numbers, and expecting we're going to have another ~250,000 people in Vancouver City in the next 20 years (based on proposed 40% metro growth and Vancouver city taking roughly it's share), we're going to need to do a lot of upzoning, one way or another.