Downtown Vancouver Updates

[jollyburger]

Architects designed the building over the King Edward Station and the new Broadway & Cambie development

http://wtleungarch.com/portfolio/broadway-cambie/

[officedweller]

I sure hope it's a different colour glass than Deliotte Summit.
WT Leung have a lot of nicely proportioned buildings around town.
Generally pleasing to look at, with use of brick etc. instead of spandrel.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by bc2mb

It's happening, rendering doesn't look much different from what was leaked a few months ago.

Hmm, needs to be double the height in this office shortage climate we are facing. Sorry, we are downtown and we need to address it with increased density so that we don't destroy our environment with sprawl.

Architects designed the building over the King Edward Station and the new Broadway & Cambie development

http://wtleungarch.com/portfolio/broadway-cambie/

This one needs to be triple the height during the office shortage. Especially for a key interchange station. Or it needs to do what the South Granville station is doing and allow flexibility to build taller at a later time. Also it would be nice if there was an option to expand some sort of a second entrance to Broadway-City Hall Station.

[SpongeG]

yea its height seems to cancel out the Deloitte next door, making neither of them special.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by scryer

This one needs to be triple the height during the office shortage. Especially for a key interchange station. Or it needs to do what the South Granville station is doing and allow flexibility to build taller at a later time. Also it would be nice if there was an option to expand some sort of a second entrance to Broadway-City Hall Station.

South Granville is going to be built tall, it just got proposed at a specific time where they needed approval for the station construction to be ready before the Broadway land study was completed.

[bc2mb]

Now that the application is on the CoV site, some more renderings have become available.

Still bland... hopefully doesn't take away too much from the stacking boxes of 400 W. Georgia...

[Hourglass]

^^ That first photo looks like a suburban office park.

[Prometheus]

With a plan to provide only 1,500 sq.ft. of commercial/retail space, this redevelopment is not bringing any meaningful addition in urban amenities to the downtown landscape. Indeed, since the plan also entails the demolition of the two adjacent Richard Street commercial/retail buildings, the redevelopment of this empty lot likely represents an actual net loss of potential urban amenities (i.e., potential new shops, restaurants, entertainment destinations, etc.) for our downtown core and thus provides no more reason for urban fun-seekers to venture any further east along West Georgia Street than there already exists today.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

With a plan to provide only 1,500 sq.ft. of commercial/retail space, this redevelopment is not bringing any meaningful addition in urban amenities to the downtown landscape. Indeed, since the plan also entails the demolition of the two adjacent Richard Street commercial/retail buildings, the redevelopment of this empty lot likely represents an actual net loss of potential urban amenities (i.e., potential new shops, restaurants, entertainment destinations, etc.) for our downtown core and thus provides no more reason for urban fun-seekers to venture any further east along West Georgia Street than there already exists today.

A good point. Perhaps if we kept the design, tripled the height, and leased more floors for retail (thinking 3000 sq.ft here) we can make this development a more meaningful one to our downtown core. For this one, I really don't need something iconic; I need something to function in a meaningful way for the city. Otherwise, we will just destroy our environment through lateral sprawl to be honest.

[giallo]

The form factor of the building is fine, it's just so grossly under built for downtown Vancouver, especially given our current office demand. And as Prometheus mentioned, it adds nothing to the streetscape. I can't see this office building as anything other than wasted potential for downtown Vancouver. It's bizarre how we keep under building for the sake of some arbitrary view cones.

[officedweller]

Reminds me of Southcore in Toronto, but shorter.

[officedweller]

There's supposed to be some sort of public gathering space at grade - looks like tables for people to work on computers, etc.


https://rezoning.vancouver.ca/applications/450wgeorgia/documents/450WGeorgiaSt.-FloorPlan.pdf

[Henbo]

Is that a dedicated entrance for a bike parkade I see?

[s211]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Reminds me of Southcore in Toronto, but shorter.

I was about to say that this tower has all the hallmarks of an homage to all that's depressing about the last generation of most Toronto office towers, i.e. completely bland glass box.

Even the newly-announced Google building in Toronto is stunningly soulless. What gives, Toronto?

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

With a plan to provide only 1,500 sq.ft. of commercial/retail space, this redevelopment is not bringing any meaningful addition in urban amenities to the downtown landscape. Indeed, since the plan also entails the demolition of the two adjacent Richard Street commercial/retail buildings, the redevelopment of this empty lot likely represents an actual net loss of potential urban amenities (i.e., potential new shops, restaurants, entertainment destinations, etc.) for our downtown core and thus provides no more reason for urban fun-seekers to venture any further east along West Georgia Street than there already exists today.

The ground floor plans look to be replicating the sort of public space that have been built in Telus Gardens. There are two retail units, and there one is for Telus, and one a food outlet, but these look to be likely to both be café uses. There's also a big, triple height atrium with tables and seating, and a bank of bleachers, that's not counted as retail space, but is a big public space. The "urban fun-seekers" might like it, but if they don't there's a big supermarket / food court / retail space going a block away on the other side of West Georgia in the Post, and presumably one day something where the Bay Parkade redevelopment happens. There's also a new restaurant, bar and café in the Westbank building across the lane.

Neither of the units on Richards Street today are retail uses, and haven't been for years, so adding one of the new retail units there will change the street for the better. It'll be right next to the bike parkade ramp that exits onto Richards, assuming the City Engineer approves that arrangement.

[jollyburger]

CRU #3 looks like the cafe kiosk

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

CRU #3 looks like the cafe kiosk

I missed that one. All three seem to be accessed from inside the atrium, rather than rom the street, so perhaps all three will be some sort of food outlet?

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by Changing City

The ground floor plans look to be replicating the sort of public space that have been built in Telus Gardens.

I don't think so. The plan here appears to show no more than the potential for a couple of small coffee/pre-prepared sandwich kiosks with some open seating inside the office lobby itself. These kinds of modest amenities appear to be mainly for the convenience of workers in this building on their coffee breaks, not a real dining destination for the wider public.

Telus Garden, by contrast, offers a huge, two-storey, fully-functioning, stand-alone restuarant, including an expansive patio. This large restuarant, Glowbal, is a major dining/entertainment destination, drawing crowds of people from all over the city and beyond. The plans above do not appear to have any potential to replicate anything remotely similar to the amenities and attractions provided by Telus Garden.

Originally Posted by Changing City

The "urban fun-seekers" might like it, but if they don't there's a big supermarket / food court / retail space going a block away on the other side of West Georgia in the Post, and presumably one day something where the Bay Parkade redevelopment happens. There's also a new restaurant, bar and café in the Westbank building across the lane.

Those are other developments, not this one. As I said, this development appears it will provide no more reason for urban fun-seekers to venture further east along West Georgia Street, if all it has is a coffee kiosk or two inside its lobby. The fact that all the other nearby developments have created (or will create) far more substantial and robust urban offerings only underscores how little this particular development will be contributing to the area.

Originally Posted by Changing City

Neither of the units on Richards Street today are retail uses, and haven't been for years, so adding one of the new retail units there will change the street for the better.

What I said is that this redevelopment "likely represents a net loss of potential urban amenities." The two buildings on Richards Street (one being a 3-storey heritage building in need of love) possess many thousands of square feet of potential urban amenities. This redevelopment, by contrast, is offering to permanently replace that potential Richards Street space with an actual 254 sq.ft. retail unit. If that is the case, this redevelopment, as I said, does indeed represent a net loss in "potential new shops, restaurants, entertainment destinations, etc., for our downtown core."

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

I don't think so. The plan here appears to show no more than the potential for a couple of small coffee/pre-prepared sandwich kiosks with some open seating inside the office lobby itself. These kinds of modest amenities appear to be mainly for the convenience of workers in this building on their coffee breaks, not a real dining destination for the wider public.

Telus Garden, by contrast, offers a huge, two-storey, fully-functioning, stand-alone restuarant, including an expansive patio. This large restuarant, Glowbal, is a major dining/entertainment destination, drawing crowds of people from all over the city and beyond. The plans above do not appear to have any potential to replicate anything remotely similar to the amenities and attractions provided by Telus Garden.

Those are other developments, not this one. As I said, this development appears it will provide no more reason for urban fun-seekers to venture further east along West Georgia Street, if all it has is a coffee kiosk or two inside its lobby. The fact that all the other nearby developments have created (or will create) far more substantial and robust urban offerings only underscores how little this particular development will be contributing to the area.

What I said is that this redevelopment "likely represents a net loss of potential urban amenities." The two buildings on Richards Street (one being a 3-storey heritage building in need of love) possess many thousands of square feet of potential urban amenities. This redevelopment, by contrast, is offering to permanently replace that potential Richards Street space with an actual 254 sq.ft. retail unit. If that is the case, this redevelopment, as I said, does indeed represent a net loss in "potential new shops, restaurants, entertainment destinations, etc., for our downtown core."

I was comparing the atrium space of Telus Garden, rather than the Glowbal side of the building on Seymour. That project is more than twice the width of this building, so they could have the atrium space and a restaurant.

Sure it's a modest amount of retail, but those other projects probably explain why a cautious developer wouldn't be looking at adding anything more ambitious - there's a lot of competition in the immediate area, and some more larger scale redevelopment still to happen.

Those 1920s buildings aren't heritage buildings - just old.

I guess we won't know if this is just a quiet space for the office workers with a sandwich counter, or something a bit more interesting, until it's occupied. The application says "THE PROJECT OFFERS A DISTINCTIVE PUBLIC REALM EXPERIENCE WITH ITS TRIPLE-HEIGHT COVERED EXTERIOR SPACE, INTERIOR SEATING/ GATHERING SPACE FOR THE PUBLIC (POPOS)".

[trofirhen]

The actual streetfront, with the buildings all completed along Georgia, seems pleasant and urbane enough. It is cleanly done and has a fairly sleek 'finished' feel to it.
However, as Prometheus stated, it is arbitrarily underbuilt. Making 450 Georga taller would "unsync" the other two buildings;
Deloitte and TELUS would be disproportionally short in that case. It is nicer to have them a similar height, as this provides linearity and consistency.
However, again, this seems a classic case of underbuilding, and raises the old argument about viewcone restrictions, and the question: "why couldn't Deloitte and TELUS have been taller."