Broadway Corridor Development Plan - Page 27

scryer · #**521** Posted **Feb 13, 2020, 11:35 PM**

Hi Guys,

Does anyone have any insights into the kind of zoning that allows bars along the Broadway corridor or whether this plan intends to keep bars and other late night entertainment zones? Would nightclubs fall under a different zoning type as well?

I'm just thinking that it would be nice to see more bars and pubs popping up appropriately along with everything else.

misher · #**522** Posted **Feb 13, 2020, 11:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by scryer

Hi Guys,

Does anyone have any insights into the kind of zoning that allows bars along the Broadway corridor or whether this plan intends to keep bars and other late night entertainment zones? Would nightclubs fall under a different zoning type as well?

I'm just thinking that it would be nice to see more bars and pubs popping up appropriately along with everything else.

I think the coming Broadway plan will tell us. The below is the old plan.

This may be useful:
https://guidelines.vancouver.ca/C013.pdf?_ga=2.210583511.335078938.1581621703-564807886.1519687854

Migrant_Coconut · #**523** Posted **Feb 14, 2020, 12:09 AM**

So long as they're on Broadway itself and not 8th or 10th, there shouldn't be a problem. The new City Council is unlikely (save Carr or Hardwick) to outlaw new bars and pubs, much less shut down the existing ones.

GenWhy? · #**524** Posted **Feb 14, 2020, 12:34 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by scryer

Hi Guys,

Does anyone have any insights into the kind of zoning that allows bars along the Broadway corridor or whether this plan intends to keep bars and other late night entertainment zones? Would nightclubs fall under a different zoning type as well?

I'm just thinking that it would be nice to see more bars and pubs popping up appropriately along with everything else.

It's in the by-law I don't foresee them changing uses too much.

misher · #**525** Posted **Feb 20, 2020, 10:07 PM**

Just released, PCI paid ~18.5 million for (1465 W. Broadway) At 8770sqft that works out to ~$2100/sqft land value.

https://www.bcassessment.ca//Property/Info/QTAwMDAwMTBVVA==

1060 West 8th sold for ~20 mil at 11300 sqft (~$1770/sqft) so it seems like C3-A property in the Broadway Area west of Cambie falls in this $1750-2100 price range.
https://sl2-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/user_a...3b6700ea956652ed130ddc95c.pdf?1549383795

Hooknose · #**526** Posted **May 1, 2020, 12:37 AM**

1060 West 8th sold for ~20 mil at 11300 sqft (~$1770/sqft) so it seems like C3-A property in the Broadway Area west of Cambie falls in this $1750-2100 price range.

There may very well be two prices for real estate. There is the per square foot price for this lot or that lot.

And then there is the per square foot price for an assembly.

If you have a 5,000 foot site, and the price is 1,000 a sq ft (5 million) that is one thing. But what can you build. Side yard set backs, rear yard set backs, view corridor, the nightmare of parking provision ... what can you do on 5,000 feet, even on a corner.

But if you have 50,000 feet (or even 25,000) you can do just about anything.

so what should the price for that site be ... 2,000 a foot, 3,000 a foot???

logan5 · #**527** Posted **May 1, 2020, 1:26 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by misher

Just released, PCI paid ~18.5 million for (1465 W. Broadway) At 8770sqft that works out to ~$2100/sqft land value.

https://www.bcassessment.ca//Property/Info/QTAwMDAwMTBVVA==

1060 West 8th sold for ~20 mil at 11300 sqft (~$1770/sqft) so it seems like C3-A property in the Broadway Area west of Cambie falls in this $1750-2100 price range.
https://sl2-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/user_a...3b6700ea956652ed130ddc95c.pdf?1549383795

Expressing the price as "per sq foot" doesn't really say much. A more meaningful way of expressing the property's value is $/buildable sq foot. At least to me it's more meaningful.

Changing City · #**528** Posted **May 1, 2020, 1:33 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by logan5

Expressing the price as "per sq foot" doesn't really say much. A more meaningful way of expressing the property's value is $/buildable sq foot. At least to me it's more meaningful.

You're correct, although in this case, we don't know what they can build. Indeed, they don't know yet! They can build the office podium that they already submitted, and then a residential tower of unknown size, height and density on top, once there's a Broadway Plan. So they're taking a slight leap in the dark (although as an experienced developer they will probably have been careful to assume a reasonable tower, rather than a huge one).

misher · #**529** Posted **May 1, 2020, 7:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by logan5

Expressing the price as "per sq foot" doesn't really say much. A more meaningful way of expressing the property's value is $/buildable sq foot. At least to me it's more meaningful.

When you know yes. But right now we have no idea what can be built as the plan isn't complete.

Btw the plan has officially been delayed 7 months to 2021.

Quote:

there will be a seven-month delay in finalizing the Broadway Plan, which was originally set for City Council’s review and approval in late 2020. Instead, council will review the final draft of the Broadway Plan in the third quarter of 2021.

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-housing-strategy-coronavirus

GenWhy? · #**530** Posted **May 1, 2020, 7:27 PM**

Going off the anticipated (I think they're almost done or are already written it) C-3A revision the minimum seems like a "known" while the maximum seems more uncertain.

misher · #**531** Posted **May 1, 2020, 7:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Going off the anticipated (I think they're almost done or are already written it) C-3A revision the minimum seems like a "known" while the maximum seems more uncertain.

Mind if I ask minimum are we looking at?

They were supposed to present their draft zoning FSR suggestions during the public presentations in March so likely they have this written down.

GenWhy? · #**532** Posted **May 1, 2020, 7:46 PM**

I understood / heard basically they were crafting the "conditional" closer to the minimum allowable. Which makes beyond perfect sense. But I don't know what the caveats look like. Similar to Cambie maybe? Utilities, amenities, infrastructure and types of housing I dunno I didn't ask because I knew there was no answer yet.

I know they'll be requesting intrusions into certain view cones but don't expect Melbourne-esk buildings to pop up.

misher · #**533** Posted **May 1, 2020, 8:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

I understood / heard basically they were crafting the "conditional" closer to the minimum allowable. Which makes beyond perfect sense. But I don't know what the caveats look like. Similar to Cambie maybe? Utilities, amenities, infrastructure and types of housing I dunno I didn't ask because I knew there was no answer yet.

I know they'll be requesting intrusions into certain view cones but don't expect Melbourne-esk buildings to pop up.

Ah. Very disappointing to hear as I believe that means its probably around 3-4.5 for C3-A. Personally I was hoping for more than Cambie. On Cambie they had to deal with a lot of single detached residents complaining. Broadway is mostly commercial and most of them don't care much buildings are taller.

I remember staff discussing how alot of Broadway lots are smaller so its hard to have towers.

Thanks for the answer.

GenWhy? · #**534** Posted **May 1, 2020, 8:19 PM**

Don't know if I've seen a 10-16 storey building with 3 FSR in the City.

misher · #**535** Posted **May 1, 2020, 8:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Don't know if I've seen a 10-16 storey building with 3 FSR in the City.

Which is why I'm expecting high maximum FSR's for Broadway as most lots are small.

PCI built its current site with a 3.0 FSR and I assume they are expecting a minimum increase to 6 for the tower portion, likely 8 or more.

There are 294 parking stalls on a 2404m^2 site with a skytrain station. Vancouver house had 361 stalls on a 4670m^2 site including the commercial. So likely they are planning big.

logan5 · #**536** Posted **May 1, 2020, 9:01 PM**

Wasn’t there some rumour or conjecture based on PCI drawings that there would be a 40 story tower built there? Height guesstimated by 332 parking stalls.

misher · #**537** Posted **May 1, 2020, 9:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by logan5

Wasn’t there some rumour or conjecture based on PCI drawings that there would be a 40 story tower built there? Height guesstimated by 332 parking stalls.

Yes, dumpster dived plans that couldn't be posted publicly due to legal issues.

https://sqwabb.wordpress.com/2019/06/29/...bway-station-in-new-west-broadway-tower/

They appear to have built a parkade that can accomodate up to a 50 storey tower on top based on the stall requirements of other towers approved downtown (given that the tower will not occupy the entire area of the building).

logan5 · #**538** Posted **May 1, 2020, 9:21 PM**

Anyways, Granville and Broadway feels more like a suitable place to have an office tower node, as opposed to Cambie and Broadway. Obviously Cambie has the better transit connections, but, maybe because it's an older (or more established) neighbourhood, it has more of a "downtown" feel to it. That might attract more office development as we move forward.

GenWhy? · #**539** Posted **May 1, 2020, 9:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by logan5

Anyways, Granville and Broadway feels more like a suitable place to have an office tower node, as opposed to Cambie and Broadway. Obviously Cambie has the better transit connections, but, maybe because it's an older (or more established) neighbourhood, it has more of a "downtown" feel to it. That might attract more office development as we move forward.

"Office zone" or the "downtown" is roughly between Oak and Cambie.

GenWhy? · #**540** Posted **May 1, 2020, 9:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by misher

Ah. Very disappointing to hear as I believe that means its probably around 3-4.5 for C3-A. Personally I was hoping for more than Cambie. On Cambie they had to deal with a lot of single detached residents complaining. Broadway is mostly commercial and most of them don't care much buildings are taller.

I remember staff discussing how alot of Broadway lots are smaller so its hard to have towers.

Thanks for the answer.

That stretch of Broadway you mention is only the north side from Yukon 'till Columbia, and in that section the City recognizes it and is open to "interesting arrangements" with assembling lots and redirecting the lane but maintaining access.