OC Transpo

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

We seem to have a locked in view of how to do things especially when we adopted capacity planning in 2011. We need some creative thinking and I think we will be rewarded with ridership growth and a good portion of the strategic investment will be covered by the new ridership revenue generated.

This is why I suggested Jarrett Walker. His firm has implemented a number of bus network redesigns in a number of cities that have all had positive effects on ridership, even when they were cost-neutral.

If you haven't read his book, you should. There are lots of things discussed in that book that we should be doing here, but aren't.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I live in Orleans today, though I was barely aware of it as a kid/teen (90s and 00s). Based on what I know and see today, Gloucester/Cumberland was responsible for the suburban look of St-Joseph (reminds me Gréber in Gatineau) with fast food restaurants, car dealerships, medium box stores (as opposed to big-box on Innes) and Place d'Orléans Mall. The few historic buildings left seem lonely and out of place.
.

I kicked around that area a bit in my youth but was long gone before the merger.

I believe there may have been some half-assed beautification efforts on St-Joseph at some point but not much more than banners that said "The Heart of Orléans" and maybe a few benches - or maybe not even that.

Even today when I go there I get the impression that the sidewalks the rare pedestrians are walking on on St-Joseph are the exact same ones that were there when Orleans was still a small village in 1972.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

. Cumberland started some of that type of development on 10th Line in Fallingbrook (pretty sure Canadian Tire (now GoodLife) was pre-amalgamation), but Ottawa went gunz-a-blazin' with Innes starting around the mid-2000s.

Not sure about that particular building but the Fallingbrook Mall just north of it (where the Shoppers Drug Mart and Metro are) was definitely built in the late 80s when the municipality was the Township of Cumberland.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Ottawa went gunz-a-blazin' with Innes starting around the mid-2000s.

Yes, development on Innes exploded after it was widened to 4 lanes. This was done in the mid-2000s.

The EA recommendations were approved in October 2001, shortly after amalgamation: https://app06.ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/citycouncil/ttc/2001/11-07/ACS2001-DEV-POL-0035.htm

[Ottawa Champ]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

This is why I suggested Jarrett Walker. His firm has implemented a number of bus network redesigns in a number of cities that have all had positive effects on ridership, even when they were cost-neutral.

If you haven't read his book, you should. There are lots of things discussed in that book that we should be doing here, but aren't.

I second that opinion. I would imagine that everyone reading this thread would find his book interesting. I wonder how many within OC Transpo management have read the book.

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by Ottawa Champ

I second that opinion. I would imagine that everyone reading this thread would find his book interesting. I wonder how many within OC Transpo management have read the book.

I just checked out Human Transit from the library. Good read so far.

[TransitZilla]

I'd be happy to lend out my copy of Human Transit as well.

[lrt's friend]

I am always interested in learning something new about this topic.

[lrt's friend]

So if Jarrett Walker was behind the Houston redesign, that was all about building a grid of frequent bus routes. I think that is what I have been talking about for the last few years. We cannot be mostly dependent on one or two spine routes.

I followed the Houston change for a while. What has been the longer term result? Has it been positive? I know the jury was out initially.

[lrt's friend]

Stage 2 LRT meeting at the Jim Durrell Arena (Walkley Road) starting at 6:30 p.m., tomorrow, February 13th. Should be interesting.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Stage 2 LRT meeting at the Jim Durrell Arena (Walkley Road) starting at 6:30 p.m., tomorrow, February 13th. Should be interesting.

Hmm. I’ll be in the area. I may stop by.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

So if Jarrett Walker was behind the Houston redesign, that was all about building a grid of frequent bus routes. I think that is what I have been talking about for the last few years. We cannot be mostly dependent on one or two spine routes.

I followed the Houston change for a while. What has been the longer term result? Has it been positive? I know the jury was out initially.

You're not going to like his answer on transfers....

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

You're not going to like his answer on transfers....

I know what was implemented in Houston. I know they eliminated some direct routes, but the grid also minimizes transfers by making it easy to navigate the city with frequent service routes.

[Truenorth00]

I think OC Transpo should actually move faster on electrifying buses. The business case increasingly looks like it's already there. No reason they can't leverage federal provincial grants to at least retool the infrastructure. There's no reason OC Transpo can't have a fully electric bus fleet in a decade.

[Acajack]

After the recent discussion on passenger information, I remembered that STO has been installing solar-powered electronic signage with real-time info at selected stops of late. These are not generally at major stations - they're often at stops located along city streets. (Though they did choose the busiest ones.)

If you look at this article, I am talking about the second type of sign referred to. (The first type of sign is used in stations only.)

http://www.sto.ca/index.php?id=87&L=en&tx_ttnews[backPid]=2&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=18858&cHash=a70fd141c53e190975836b31d9cedadd

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

So if Jarrett Walker was behind the Houston redesign, that was all about building a grid of frequent bus routes. I think that is what I have been talking about for the last few years. We cannot be mostly dependent on one or two spine routes.

I followed the Houston change for a while. What has been the longer term result? Has it been positive? I know the jury was out initially.

I took a quick look at Houston's Ridership reports (which are fantastic by the way, separated in all kinds of data BY ROUTE!) and it seems there ridership is stagnant. 282,005 average weekday ridership for Nov. 2014 and 282,898 average weekday ridership for Nov. 2019. Having said that, most US transit systems have falling ridership, so its not that bad in context.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Multi-modal

I took a quick look at Houston's Ridership reports (which are fantastic by the way, separated in all kinds of data BY ROUTE!) and it seems there ridership is stagnant. 282,005 average weekday ridership for Nov. 2014 and 282,898 average weekday ridership for Nov. 2019. Having said that, most US transit systems have falling ridership, so its not that bad in context.

I had a very quick look and that is what I noticed too. Stagnant ridership. But I think there had been a long period of decline before the changes.

[TransitZilla]

Great to meet a couple of fellow SSP'ers (lrt's friend and Multi-modal) at the Stage 2 info session tonight!

I was thinking about the SE Transitway, especially in light of Pat Scrimgeour's comment that route 97 will cease to exist following the opening of Trillim Line to the Airport.

One of the ideas discussed on the humantranit.org blog is a concept called a Spine. An example from the Dublin Bus Network Redesign is shown below:



The idea is that the Spine has a letter, and all the bus routes that use that common segment of the spine start with the same letter, and they are scheduled to be evenly spaced on the common segment so that it has high frequency.

For the SE Transitway, I'd actually imagine 2 overlapping spines: Spine "A" from Hurdman to South Keys, and Spine "B" from Hurdman to Billings Bridge

So you could have:

A1 (old 98)
A2 (old 93)
A3 (old 96)
A4 (old 40)


B1 (old 92)
B2 (old 90)
B3 (old 88)
B4 (old 10)

etc.

This would make the system far easier to use, since you would know any A bus from Hurdman goes as far as South Keys and any B bus goes as far as Billings. It would be much easier than trying to remember a laundry list of bus routes.

And the co-ordinated scheduling aspect of a spine would hopefully improve frequency, maybe making "looping" the 44 and 46 less necessary.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

This would make the system far easier to use, since you would know any A bus from Hurdman goes as far as South Keys and any B bus goes as far as Billings. It would be much easier than trying to remember a laundry list of bus routes.

And the co-ordinated scheduling aspect of a spine would hopefully improve frequency, maybe making "looping" the 44 and 46 less necessary.

Apart from different signage, this is pretty much what exists now.

I've taken transit from Billings to Downtown and I think it's funny now that the Hurdman-bound platform at Billings is now effectively always empty because every bus goes to Hurdman, whereas before people would wait for the 97/98 to get downtown.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

Great to meet a couple of fellow SSP'ers (lrt's friend and Multi-modal) at the Stage 2 info session tonight!

I was thinking about the SE Transitway, especially in light of Pat Scrimgeour's comment that route 97 will cease to exist following the opening of Trillim Line to the Airport.

One of the ideas discussed on the humantranit.org blog is a concept called a Spine. An example from the Dublin Bus Network Redesign is shown below:



The idea is that the Spine has a letter, and all the bus routes that use that common segment of the spine start with the same letter, and they are scheduled to be evenly spaced on the common segment so that it has high frequency.

For the SE Transitway, I'd actually imagine 2 overlapping spines: Spine "A" from Hurdman to South Keys, and Spine "B" from Hurdman to Billings Bridge

So you could have:

A1 (old 98)
A2 (old 93)
A3 (old 96)
A4 (old 40)


B1 (old 92)
B2 (old 90)
B3 (old 88)
B4 (old 10)

etc.

This would make the system far easier to use, since you would know any A bus from Hurdman goes as far as South Keys and any B bus goes as far as Billings. It would be much easier than trying to remember a laundry list of bus routes.

And the co-ordinated scheduling aspect of a spine would hopefully improve frequency, maybe making "looping" the 44 and 46 less necessary.

Thanks Brad for introducing yourself. I guessed that this was you. There are lots of ideas for improving service. Thanks for sharing that concept.

It response to my second question about future bus service cuts, it was a little disheartening when the budget became such an overriding issue . Naturally, there are limits on spending, but I am now starting to wonder how much it is really costing to run the trains and how this may be negatively affecting bus operations.