YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by ninjakafi_81

I'm quite new to the aviation stuff, but why exactly are they suspending this route for almost 7 months ? Is the demand low ?

YVR-MEL was launched as year round service a year and a half ago. Capacity between North America and Australia is at an all time high. This drives down yields. AC has been hinting at overcapacity to Australia in several quarterly earning calls already.

So it comes as no surprise to me that they are cutting MEL to seasonal. It was apparently the weakest route of the 3. Yet another blow to international numbers at YVR this year.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I can’t see that happening. I recall being on A340 flights from HNL-YVR that we’re weight restricted due to cargo. I doubt the A220 could handle much of that.

Maybe not on YVR-HNL, since the demand far exceeds what an A220 can provide. That being said, in 5-10 years time, once AC has plenty of frames, YYJ-HNL or YXX-HNL could be ideal routes for the A220. An A340 would be overkill on those two.....

[zahav]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

YVR-MEL was launched as year round service a year and a half ago. Capacity between North America and Australia is at an all time high. This drives down yields. AC has been hinting at overcapacity to Australia in several quarterly earning calls already.

So it comes as no surprise to me that they are cutting MEL to seasonal. It was apparently the weakest route of the 3. Yet another blow to international numbers at YVR this year.

It was originally launched as seasonal, then reduced by 1 frequency per week but made year-round, now back to seasonal. Definitely trial and error with figuring out the demand. The equipment pressures are ever present, so all routes are likely under the microscope. This year will be brutal for international, it will just be a question of just how bad

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Maybe not on YVR-HNL, since the demand far exceeds what an A220 can provide. That being said, in 5-10 years time, once AC has plenty of frames, YYJ-HNL or YXX-HNL could be ideal routes for the A220. An A340 would be overkill on those two.....

True... or who knows, even something like a direct YVR-ITO (Hilo). And if I recall correctly, the A220 was designed with cargo in mind as cargo is becoming a big part of the airline's business model these days. This is why overhead bins are getting bigger and we're getting charged to check luggage. That space in the hold is becoming more valuable.

[nname]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Maybe not on YVR-HNL, since the demand far exceeds what an A220 can provide. That being said, in 5-10 years time, once AC has plenty of frames, YYJ-HNL or YXX-HNL could be ideal routes for the A220. An A340 would be overkill on those two.....

Maybe they could compete with WS's offering by providing 3x daily 223 instead of 2x daily MAX. After all, they plan to deploy 223 to YVR-LAX/SFO, and the routes are already 6x/4x daily...

Or they could extend the seasonal LIH and KOA to year-round with 223.

YXX-HNL... I don't see how they would put mainline onto the route. If AC ever starts the route, it would most likely be Rouge.

[nname]

Summer schedule for Flair out of YVR:

F8138 YVR 0945 - 1220 YEG x3
F8139 YEG 1700 - 1735 YVR x3

F8223 YYZ 0630 - 0845 YVR x37
F8224 YVR 0610 - 1340 YYZ D
F8711 YYZ 1430 - 1645 YVR D
F8712 YVR 2255 - 0635+1 YYZ x36

F8825 YVR 1745 - 2010 YYC D
F8826 YYC 2100 - 2130 YVR D

Total 25x weekly

Next summer YVR will be 3rd largest for Flair, behind YYZ (51x) and YYC (27x), but ahead of YEG (22x) and YOW (18x), although YVR is only ranked 5th in term of the number of destinations.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by nname

Summer schedule for Flair out of YVR:

F8138 YVR 0945 - 1220 YEG x3
F8139 YEG 1700 - 1735 YVR x3

F8223 YYZ 0630 - 0845 YVR x37
F8224 YVR 0610 - 1340 YYZ D
F8711 YYZ 1430 - 1645 YVR D
F8712 YVR 2255 - 0635+1 YYZ x36

F8825 YVR 1745 - 2010 YYC D
F8826 YYC 2100 - 2130 YVR D

Total 25x weekly

Next summer YVR will be 3rd largest for Flair, behind YYZ (51x) and YYC (27x), but ahead of YEG (22x) and YOW (18x), although YVR is only ranked 5th in term of the number of destinations.

Disappointing about YVR/MEL I only used it once. Should be good for at least permanent seasonal but see how we go.

Wow look at Flair grow! Third largest base huh? Perhaps it’s time to drop the term “hub” altogether or I suppose YYZ is now their huge “hub.”

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by zahav

It was originally launched as seasonal, then reduced by 1 frequency per week but made year-round

I didn't count that 2 month "soft launch" back in Dec 2017. Pretty weird to do that. Launch a route for 2 months, end it, and then a few months later, re-launch it year round. Never understood that one back then. In hindsight, i guess it was a sign of the weakness of the route.

[nname]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Disappointing about YVR/MEL I only used it once. Should be good for at least permanent seasonal but see how we go.

I remember even just a couple month ago, AC still want YVR-MEL to become daily year-round and YVR-AKL year-round, eventually.....

[s211]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Disappointing about YVR/MEL I only used it once. Should be good for at least permanent seasonal but see how we go.

I've spoken to several people that have traveled that route and they said they had no problem finding empty rows of seats to sleep on.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by nname

I remember even just a couple month ago, AC still want YVR-MEL to become daily year-round and YVR-AKL year-round, eventually.....

Things have changed very quickly in the last few months. Our horrific bushfires, the Hong Kong crisis and now the Wuhan Coronavirus crisis. All have affected and will continue to affect Melbourne for who knows how long. We are getting hit from both inbound and outbound factors which are completely out of our control.

[thenoflyzone]

Well, some interesting news 127 miles south of YVR......

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/202...hoice-for-Travelers-NET-ALP/default.aspx

American will launch the first service from Seattle (SEA) to Bangalore, India (BLR) beginning October 2020. A new American route from SEA to the global business hub London Heathrow (LHR) will begin flying in March 2021.

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Well, some interesting news 127 miles south of YVR......

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/202...hoice-for-Travelers-NET-ALP/default.aspx

Truly hope this is not the first step towards Alaska being swallowed up by American; who in its history have acquired past West Coast airlines such as Reno Air and Air Cal and indirectly America West through US Airways. Alaska has carved out a nice niche for itself on the West Coast. It would be a shame to see it lost through American.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by Ozabald

Truly hope this is not the first step towards Alaska being swallowed up by American; who in its history have acquired past West Coast airlines such as Reno Air and Air Cal and indirectly America West through US Airways. Alaska has carved out a nice niche for itself on the West Coast. It would be a shame to see it lost through American.

I'm not sure American is going to swallow up Alaskan. Alaskan is actually a pretty big airline itself. Remember Alaskan owns Virgin America not long ago as well.

This announcement is part of a bigger piece of news that Alaskan is joining OneWorld in 2021. https://loyaltylobby.com/2020/02/13/alaska-airlines-to-join-oneworld-by-summer-2021/

Alaskan already has a partnership with British Airways and this has been rumoured for a while, but it looks like Seattle is going to become and interesting place becoming a strong OneWorld Hub ( Japan Airlines also started flying there from Tokyo ).

I'd be sad if JAL decided to focus all its energies on SEA instead of YVR, but it unfortunately makes more sense than YVR at the moment, unless WJ decides to create a partnership with JAL. JAL runs a 767 into YVR in the off-season and a 787 other times of the year and we already have ANA and AC serving HND,NRT, and KIX. They used to fly a 747 into YVR.

Still have fond memories of that flight.

( This is not a doom n' gloom post... but I DO like the Alaskan points program as it offers considerable value in Business and First class )

[connect2source]

It's likely YVR will retain it's strong China ties and continue to be a Star Alliance hub, SEA will now be an international gateway for OneWorld and Skyteam, hence JAL will likely strengthen SEA and ANA will strengthen YVR. Btw, it's Alaska Airlines, not 'Alaskan'.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Well, some interesting news 127 miles south of YVR......

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/202...hoice-for-Travelers-NET-ALP/default.aspx

Lots of Seattle tech workers for Microsoft and Amazon from India, even with Trump in office.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Lots of Seattle tech workers for Microsoft and Amazon from India, even with Trump in office.

Especially at Bangalore. The route makes sense on an O&D level. Alaska will provide the onward feed. Smart strategy by AA, but lets face it, no one was expecting this. Some say it's retaliation for DL building up MIA and their recent tie-up with LATAM in South America.

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

( This is not a doom n' gloom post... but I DO like the Alaskan points program as it offers considerable value in Business and First class )

Enjoy it while you can. Some believe the benefits of their rewards program will weaken with them joining OneWorld.

https://onemileatatime.com/alaska-airlines-oneworld/

[casper]

Originally Posted by connect2source

It's likely YVR will retain it's strong China ties and continue to be a Star Alliance hub, SEA will now be an international gateway for OneWorld and Skyteam, hence JAL will likely strengthen SEA and ANA will strengthen YVR. Btw, it's Alaska Airlines, not 'Alaskan'.

YVR will also be a strong Skyteam hub. WestJet involvement with Skyteam airlines continues to grow.

What YVR has going for it is lack of congestion. Connected in SEA last night.
The inbound flight was stuck between runways for 5-10 minutes. Pilot said it was not an issue as our gate still have another aircraft there that could not get out to congestion in the laneway.

YVR is still a more effective airport to work from.

[trofirhen]

Bangalore is a tech economy (J class) whereas Delhi is the capital and main connection point for all India (VFR traffic). Bangalore is market-specific and part of SEA-TAC's "muscling-up"

[Johnny Aussie]

Although not YVR related as I realise some love to bring SEA up often but it will be fun watching AA and DL duke it out.
Looks like Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum have chimed in again.
Somebody above alluded to the congestion that SEA is facing:
Their number 1 current huge project is their IAF (Intl Arrivals Facility) - the emphasis here is the “Arrivals” aspect. The facility itself is really an enhanced intl processing facility. A much needed improvement there.
Unfortunately this “expansion” is not delivering any gate capacity. At the moment there are no immediate plans for gate expansion. There is very little room to move for any sort of significant expansion without a serious overhaul of the existing facility or expropriation. In any event there really isn’t a lot of capacity left for either carrier to build up a large intl hub network. Just look at SEA’s Projects page and it’s all about modernisation and enhancements not true “expansions.”
AA’s benefit here is that they have an instant domestic network at their disposal thanks to AS’s huge hub in SEA. DL had to build from scratch. Case in point - DL’s intl network has not gained any additional frequencies in the last couple of years (HKG out KIX in). Also note, other carriers aren’t just standing by... even Star Alliance carriers such as SQ and LH are starting new services. Seattle is a huge market but how big is the pie and how much can each carrier get from that pie?
The discussion about taxiway congestion is also significant. SEA’s three runway layout means that if you land on 34L/16R you have to cross not one but two other active runways. This can create a huge mess when trying to get arriving planes into the gate areas which are all located on the extreme East of the airfield. This is even highlighted in the SEA airport projects page... waiting times for gate space and taxiing congestion. Fun to watch on FR24 as flights arriving get "trapped" between the runways as too many flights are taking off. ATC cannot hold departures long enough to get the arriving planes into the gate areas otherwise the departing flights then get backed up and clog the gate area aprons.
Even LAX which has a 4 runway system at most arriving planes only have to cross one other active runway. Even then arriving flights get stacked up and down the area between the runways then all cross at once in between departing flights.. great fun to watch from the LAX Hilton lounge.
This may also be a step in the direction of AA acquiring AS. There are some who will refuse to believe this could happen but... there have been WAY bigger mergers in the history of US aviation! And once you’re in the same alliance do you need two carriers in the same country? UA/CO comes to mind?

So meanwhile YVR is expanding with additional gates and facilities... Cleary YVR’s is in for a downturn and what’s happening is no reflection on Vancouver as the global events that are affecting worldwide travel is having and will have a significant impact at YVR.