TD Coliseum | ? | 4 fl | Under Construction - Page 19

king10 · #**361** Posted **Feb 7, 2020, 4:44 PM**

Andaleaur is disgusted the city didnt want to pay over $100m for a parking garage and 6000 seat arena in a private mall parking lot but, just like he has to consider the best interests of bulldog fans, cllrs have to consider the best interests of taxpayer dollars. When there are two proposals which look to use 100% private funding while revitalizing ALL entertainment facilities his proposal looks to be significantly less appealing. With his proposal, the city would still have to look for money revitalize or demo its downtown assets on top of funding over $100m at limeridge.

King&James · #**362** Posted **Feb 7, 2020, 5:36 PM**

I would love to know where Vrancor would put his new hotel. Would have it hands down if the convention centre spans over MacNab right into the proposed hotel (old Robinson & Royal Bank lot). That way he has a hotel at each end of the conference centre. A hotel on the empty lot at King and Bay (south east corner), would also be a great strategic play with connects to convention centre via AGH, Standard Life /Jackson Square and even a great pivot point to his other hotels on George (maybe just pick up empty lot on Bay/George.

NortheastWind · #**363** Posted **Feb 7, 2020, 6:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteelTown

If I had to choose between Vrancor and Urban Precinct Group, I would go with Vrancor as well.

Urban Precinct Group approach is like the 1950/60's approach, demo and rebuild. I'd rather keep what we have and expand on it.

Ideally, it would be great if Urban Precinct Group and Vrancor came together as a group.

The biggest difference/issue I see is the Convention Centre, there's no way Vrancor supports moving the Convention Centre to City Centre as he'll lose his direct connection from Sheraton hotel.

I'm not a big fan of demoing buildings, however the convention centre as it currently stands is ugly from King St and should never have been designed with a red brick wall in the heart of downtown. I say tear it down and build something more inviting.

Hamilton Convention Centre by limeyviking, on Flickr

TheRitsman · #**364** Posted **Feb 7, 2020, 8:00 PM**

I haven't seen the details of both proposals as much as I'd like, but the Urban Precinct Group proposal looks much more visionary and progressive than Vrancors. I'm definitely leaning toward theirs and away from Vrancors. Vrancors also seems cheap and quick and designed to please council.

Djeffery · #**365** Posted **Feb 7, 2020, 9:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteelTown

I watched the Vrancor presentation yesterday and their ideal for Copps is to use a curtain to block the upper block. However, the curtain will be narrow as goes up to the ceiling. Kind of hard to describe without pictures kinda looks like inside a circus tent.

The curtain will drape from the upper bowl to the centre of Copps ceiling, making the ceiling look narrow and more intimate.

Sounds similar in concept to how BC Place is curtained off. Smaller scale of course, with less of an opening at the top because obviously no retractable roof to worry about at Copps.

Berklon · #**366** Posted **Feb 7, 2020, 11:12 PM**

BC Place's "curtains" are more horizontal and droopy while the plan for FOC is vertical and it appears to look more panel-like. The picture 2 pages back shows how different the approaches are - and to me I like the FOC proposal better.

king10 · #**367** Posted **Feb 7, 2020, 11:14 PM**

Its more similar to Mercedes Benz stadium in Atlanta IMO.

Djeffery · #**368** Posted **Feb 8, 2020, 12:47 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berklon

BC Place's "curtains" are more horizontal and droopy while the plan for FOC is vertical and it appears to look more panel-like. The picture 2 pages back shows how different the approaches are - and to me I like the FOC proposal better.

Doesn't really sound any different than how it is now then. Vertical partitions of whatever material don't really do anything for the ceiling height, which is what really makes it feel like a large empty arena.

Jon Dalton · #**369** Posted **Feb 8, 2020, 7:56 PM**

It sounds like the Vrancor proposal has more meat to it and they have the deep pockets make it happen. Urban Precinct has a loftier vision but if they're going to be waiting for funding from upper levels of government, forget it. How has that ever worked out for us?

Is there video of the presentations anywhere on the internet?

SteelTown · #**370** Posted **Feb 8, 2020, 8:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Dalton

Is there video of the presentations anywhere on the internet?

Here's the video from the General Issues Committee, skip to around 2:50:40 mark

https://pub-hamilton.escribemeetings...2-05-09-27.mp4

Vrancor presents first and immediately after Urban Precinct Group presents.

Crapht · #**371** Posted **Feb 9, 2020, 5:02 PM**

Do I understand correctly? Is the Urban Precinct proposal saying they would like to demolish the current Convention Centre and build a new Art Gallery in it's place with a tower over top and then demolish the current Art Gallery and build two new towers in that space? I'd love to see this stretch of King street more walkable and open to retail along with Summer's Lane but I'd like to see the AGH remain intact. Take down Ellen Fairclough and build a 60 story tower if you need to but leave the AGH as is and maybe expand into the sculpture garden.

king10 · #**372** Posted **Feb 9, 2020, 6:32 PM**

Highly doubt we see a 60 story tower.

Crapht · #**373** Posted **Feb 10, 2020, 1:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by king10

Highly doubt we see a 60 story tower.

I'm more concerned with the preservation of the AGH.

atnor · #**374** Posted **Feb 10, 2020, 10:25 PM**

Is the AGH as is worth preserving? Never been so I’m genuinely curious.

DavefromSt.Vital · #**375** Posted **Feb 11, 2020, 2:06 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crapht

I'm more concerned with the preservation of the AGH.

Why the concern with saving the building? I have been there many times and I have always found the general flow awkward. More importantly, most of it was designed before anyone thought that barrier free access would be a concept. While accommodations have been made, they aren't always what one would plan from new.

King&James · #**376** Posted **Feb 11, 2020, 12:16 PM**

I think this is Vrancor's to lose, and they will turn on the jets with a few extra high-rise details (a hotel and 1-2 residential towers), along with the no cost to City and an aggressive timeline to get it done. Wonder if they will entertain partners?

thistleclub · #**377** Posted **Feb 11, 2020, 1:30 PM**

Quote:

Why the concern with saving the building? I have been there many times and I have always found the general flow awkward. More importantly, most of it was designed before anyone thought that barrier free access would be a concept. While accommodations have been made, they aren't always what one would plan from new.

It underwent an $18.2M reno 15 years ago, and announced plans for a $30M reno seven years ago that may or may not still be in the works. (That price tag would probably not come close to the cost of a from-scratch build for a facility that has almost hospital-grade technical specs.)

Nobody as yet has proposed privatizing the AGH, so replacing the gallery on an artificial timeline would be a huge project floated on the public dime. That would be an entertaining prospect. Twenty years ago, there was talk of moving the AGH into the newly-vacant Eaton Centre, and council has more recently debated selling off the gallery's permanent collection to improve its bottom line. (The City makes an annual contribution of $1M+ to the AGH.)

Edited to add some pertinent detail in the Feb 11, 2020 Spec:

"In 2013 the art gallery under previous president and chief executive officer Louise Dompierre proposed a $30-million fundraising campaign to finance a refurbished and expanded gallery that would have included a new wing, three new studios and additional gallery space on the second floor. But councillors rejected the idea that the city would help pay for it, believing residents were opposed to paying higher taxes for the project. The design and fundraising plans were left in limbo until they were scrapped in 2017 as unrealistic."

drpgq · #**378** Posted **Feb 11, 2020, 1:57 PM**

Rage Against the Machine is playing First Ontario in July, unusually along with Toronto and Buffalo this tour.

mattgrande · #**379** Posted **Feb 11, 2020, 3:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by drpgq

Rage Against the Machine is playing First Ontario in July, unusually along with Toronto and Buffalo this tour.

Not to belabour the point, but stuff like this is why we need a large arena downtown.

Pearl Jam, Rage Against The Machine, Run The Jewels, BTS, Blackpink... None of thes groups are going to a 6-10k seat stadium to play.

TheRitsman · #**380** Posted **Feb 11, 2020, 3:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattgrande

Not to belabour the point, but stuff like this is why we need a large arena downtown.

Pearl Jam, Rage Against The Machine, Run The Jewels, BTS, Blackpink... None of thes groups are going to a 6-10k seat stadium to play.

If you think about it, Hamilton has a huge market, including Brantford, Grimsby, Burlington, and St Catherine's and Niagara, all of which can make it into and out of Hamilton much quicker and easier than Toronto.

Plus with downtowns revival, there are bars, restaurants and cafes for before and after the concert or show.