Where Is The Rust Belt?

[eschaton]

Out of U.S. cities, Toronto reminds me most strongly of Chicago, though the built vernacular is a bit different.

[Investing In Chicago]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Macys was already HQ in NYC. They've had senior management in Manhattan for decades, even in the Federated days.

They kept the "official" HQ in Cincy because of legacy/civic reasons, but I guess they're dropping the pretense.

Yep, and the Macys.com team is in San Francisco.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago

Yep, and the Macys.com team is in San Francisco.

They're shutting that office down too.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

the Nashville hat huh? I'm thinkin' bout some kind of country music bar in Quebec. The only distinctly Canadian "country" sound i've come across since say the 70s or something.

As far as the music scene overall i always sort of thought to split the lions share pretty equally between Toronto and Montreal but perhaps that has changed.

Oh Stomping Tom is about as corny Canadianna as you get..And yes Quebec Folk is real distinct. Quickly, give this a listen. You'll hear this classic at 95% of Francophone weddings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRv3xmpfZ8o


I do know that Montreal acted like our fashion capital at one point. My point was that Toronto is a real turn key city for Canadian content at the very least..Recording industry for all genres, Television production, financial, fashion, Theatre district. etc.
With lots of spillover to both Van and Montreal obviously..I know that both Bob Rock and Bruce Fairburn are stationed out of Van, so they get a lot of international recording that way, but the bulk is in Toronto. In any event, that ridiculous Buffalo and Toronto comparison is coming from a very misinformed place.

Originally Posted by eschaton

Out of U.S. cities, Toronto reminds me most strongly of Chicago, though the built vernacular is a bit different.

Funny you mention that, because I went to a Raptors game back in December and struck up a small convo with a lady next to me.She was just in Chicago the weekend before, and said the same thing..I've never been, so I don't have an opinion, but found her assessment interesting.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

the Nashville hat huh? I'm thinkin' bout some kind of country music bar in Quebec. The only distinctly Canadian "country" sound i've come across since say the 70s or something.
.

Canada doesn't really have a "Nashville".

[suburbanite]

I mean if you're talking about how Buffalo and Toronto developed it's not too far off. Like Toronto's urban growth history probably more closely matches Buffalo. Both Great Lake towns with an early manufacturing presence that has since fallen away. The cities probably wouldn't have felt all that different just before WW2. No city developed in the way New York did and that's why it's New York.

If you're comparing how the cities operate within their respective countries today than it would be hard for them to be more different.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Canada doesn't really have a "Nashville".

Yes..That's my point..A home grown country recording artist will most likely come to a major studio in Toronto to record and even base themselves only if they want to stay in the country..Otherwise yes, they would just go to Nashville. Ditto for the other genres and other artists like actors /actresses. movie producers etc. Obviously LA is on their radar for the big time. Overall, NYC has more competition within The U.S then Toronto has within Canada for these industries.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Razor

Yes..That's my point..A country recording artist will most likely come to a major studio in Toronto to record if only she/he wants to stay in the country..Otherwise they would just go to Nashville.

I guess.

Canada's Nashville is... Nashville!

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by Razor

Oh Stomping Tom is about as corny Canadianna as you get..And yes Quebec Folk is real distinct. Quickly, give this a listen. You'll hear this classic at 95% of Francophone weddings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRv3xmpfZ8o

yeah, quebec folk gets played on small folksy radio stations in eastern missouri and upper ozarks (ste. genevieve/st. louis/valles mines/etc). not sure if part of that is the missouri french/canadien-american (?) linguistic pocket of the ozarks that largely died out by the 1950s or what.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

yeah, quebec folk gets played on small folksy radio stations in eastern missouri and upper ozarks (ste. genevieve/st. louis/valles mines/etc). not sure if part of that is the missouri french/canadien-american (?) linguistic pocket of the ozarks that largely died out by the 1950s or what.

Not sure, but would of been an interesting cultural pocket had it been maintained and preserved to the level that Quebec has managed to do. Ditto for Louisiana.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Razor

Oh Stomping Tom is about as corny Canadianna as you get..And yes Quebec Folk is real distinct. Quickly, give this a listen. You'll hear this classic at 95% of Francophone weddings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRv3xmpfZ8o


I do know that Montreal acted like our fashion capital at one point. My point was that Toronto is a real turn key city for Canadian content at the very least..Recording industry for all genres, Television production, financial, fashion, Theatre district. etc.
With lots of spillover to both Van and Montreal obviously..I know that both Bob Rock and Bruce Fairburn are stationed out of Van, so they get a lot of international recording that way, but the bulk is in Toronto. In any event, that ridiculous Buffalo and Toronto comparison is coming from a very misinformed place.

.

The cultural and entertainment scenes are pretty segregated between English Canada (centred on Toronto) and French Canada (dominated by Montreal).

My kids are Canadian and almost none of the culture they consume comes out of Toronto, unless it's stuff like Drake, The Weeknd or Justin Bieber which has been fed to them through the Hollywood showbiz machine in the U.S.

My kids don't know any local media or entertainment celebrities from Toronto, or comedians or actors who are local icons there. They don't pay attention to talk shows or other TV shows or series from there or set there.

My kids' main cultural feeder cities are Montreal, NYC, LA and Paris.

And my kids' reality is basically that of about one quarter of Canada.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The cultural and entertainment scenes are pretty segregated between English Canada (centred on Toronto) and French Canada (dominated by Montreal).

My kids are Canadian and almost none of the culture they consume comes out of Toronto, unless it's stuff like Drake, The Weeknd or Justin Bieber which has been fed to them through the Hollywood showbiz machine in the U.S.

My kids don't know any local media or entertainment celebrities from Toronto, or comedians or actors who are local icons there. They don't pay attention to talk shows or other TV shows or series from there or set there.

My kids' main cultural feeder cities are Montreal, NYC, LA and Paris.

And my kids' reality is basically that of about one quarter of Canada.

Of course! Now if one of your kids was a budding actor, and they got offered a role in Canadian production ..I dunno like a Corner Gas 2020, they will most likely base the work out of Toronto..They may use it as a spring board to get to the U.S eventually..Ditto if your kid was in a band touring Ontario, and a label picks them up. Guess where that recording will most likely be produced and made?.Hence, my Toronto acting as a centre of everything city here..I know you see what I'm saying here..So moving on.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Drake is not a music scene, lol.

No, but if you're a budding young rapper from Grand Prairie Alberta (2 puck we'll say), who happens to have a sister with a newly minted business masters degree who wants to make a go at it at a corporate head office, they both may be Toronto bound . At least at first.Similiar siblings coming out of Idaho..One may go to NYC, whereas one may go to Atlanta.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Mister F

Toronto isn't an eastern midwest city because Canada doesn't have a midwest. The Midwest is a heavily populated agricultural and industrial heartland region between the eastern and western power bases of the country and forms a gradual transition between east and west. Basically all of that is completely foreign to Canada. This forum likes to apply US terms to Canada but a lot of those concepts don't apply across the border.

There is actually a hard and real border between the two countries. More significant than "Northeastern vs Midwestern."

And yes, no equivalent of the "I" states/corn belt in Canada. The East and West are spearated by 1000 miles of thinly populated Canadian Shield.

I mean, you can say SW Ontario is "Michigan-like" and the southern Prairies are "Dakota-like" but there's no contiguous link like in the US Midwest.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Docere

There is actually a hard and real border between the two countries. More significant than "Northeastern vs Midwestern."

And yes, no equivalent of the "I" states/corn belt in Canada. The East and West are spearated by 1000 miles of thinly populated Canadian Shield.

I mean, you can say SW Ontario is "Michigan-like" and the southern Prairies are "Dakota-like" but there's no contiguous link like in the US Midwest.

yes

I guess the U.S has a more complete transition analogous to going into a paint store and seeing all the shades of a colour on a paint chart commencing with the first shade (East coast), and ending on the final shade of that same colour (West coast). Canada doesn't have that same chart. Not only that, they have a South direction as well. More 3D I suppose.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Docere

There is actually a hard and real border between the two countries. More significant than "Northeastern vs Midwestern."

And yes, no equivalent of the "I" states/corn belt in Canada. The East and West are spearated by 1000 miles of thinly populated Canadian Shield.

I mean, you can say SW Ontario is "Michigan-like" and the southern Prairies are "Dakota-like" but there's no contiguous link like in the US Midwest.

Midwest may not be the right label, but Michigan (all of it) and Ontario (all of it) are definitely of the same region. Michigan is far more similar to Ontario than it is to other places in the Midwest. Ontario is way more like Michigan than it is to British Columbia.

Also, Great Lakes cities tend to look alike. They are just different extremes of the generic Great Lakes city. Even though Metropolis is apparently based on Cleveland (or Toronto), it could easily be any of the major Great Lakes cities in the mid 20th century.

[softee]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Midwest may not be the right label, but Michigan (all of it) and Ontario (all of it) are definitely of the same region. Michigan is far more similar to Ontario than it is to other places in the Midwest. Ontario is way more like Michigan than it is to British Columbia.

Eastern Ontario is not really Michiganesque at all, it has much more of a colonial, almost New England look to it. From The GTA Eastward, Ontario is a neighbour to Upstate (or Western) New York. Michigan doesn't factor in much at all.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Midwest may not be the right label, but Michigan (all of it) and Ontario (all of it) are definitely of the same region. Michigan is far more similar to Ontario than it is to other places in the Midwest. Ontario is way more like Michigan than it is to British Columbia.

Also, Great Lakes cities tend to look alike. They are just different extremes of the generic Great Lakes city. Even though Metropolis is apparently based on Cleveland (or Toronto), it could easily be any of the major Great Lakes cities in the mid 20th century.

i don't know, its a big sort of continuum "smear of similarities" when talking about the midwest. depends on what part of michigan and what part of ontario you are talking about. ive crossed the border at minnesota to ontario and it was more similar than any two areas on either side of the border than ive ever seen. i'd argue that minnesota is more similar to ontario than michigan, which is more heavily influenced by other areas of the u.s. as well as rustbelt history. minneapolis feels much more like a canadian city than detroit.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Razor

Of course! Now if one of your kids was a budding actor, and they got offered a role in Canadian production ..I dunno like a Corner Gas 2020, they will most likely base the work out of Toronto..They may use it as a spring board to get to the U.S eventually..Ditto if your kid was in a band touring Ontario, and a label picks them up. Guess where that recording will most likely be produced and made?.Hence, my Toronto acting as a centre of everything city here..I know you see what I'm saying here..So moving on.

Agreed. My point is simply that all of this exists in parallel and is replicated (in some cases even more comprehensively) for French Canada with Montreal as the nexus.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

i don't know, its a big sort of continuum "smear of similarities" when talking about the midwest. depends on what part of michigan and what part of ontario you are talking about. ive crossed the border at minnesota to ontario and it was more similar than any two areas on either side of the border than ive ever seen. i'd argue that minnesota is more similar to ontario than michigan, which is more heavily influenced by other areas of the u.s. as well as rustbelt history. minneapolis feels much more like a canadian city than detroit.

I would assume that the towns of Michigan in that region are also similar to the cross border counterparts.