Atlantic Canada airport thread

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by J81

What stopped them was the lack of aircraft. When you completely shift your low cost structure into a hub and spoke model you need lots of aircraft in a short period to make it work. When you only have so many airplanes to go around you have to get them from somewhere so smaller point to point routes which are profitable get abandoned so the aircraft can be used to feed the growing hub machine.

Bottom line is YHM-YQM didnt fit their hub and spoke model. Thats why it went away. Swoop will do well in YQM

Bottom line is that hub and spoke screws smaller airports 100% of the time.

At the same time, hub and spoke artificially inflates the numbers at designated regional airports due to all the transiting passengers.

[Bishop2047]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Bottom line is that hub and spoke screws smaller airports 100% of the time.

At the same time, hub and spoke artificially inflates the numbers at designated regional airports due to all the transiting passengers.

St John's and Quebec City are two that come to mind as the "most screwed over" Quebec could easily be a major port if entry and have alot of direct flight be so much is just directed to other hubs.

Winnipeg (a city of similar size and a capital) has PAX of 4.5 mil. While Quebec sits at 1 8 mil.

If any of you frequent the national airport thread I don't have to tell you that the Newfoundlanders are not to pleased to lose busy international flights to Halifax. I can not imagine having to backtrack to make an international flight in the way that they are forced to so often.

[Sunnybrae]

Originally Posted by J81

What stopped them was the lack of aircraft. When you completely shift your low cost structure into a hub and spoke model you need lots of aircraft in a short period to make it work. When you only have so many airplanes to go around you have to get them from somewhere so smaller point to point routes which are profitable get abandoned so the aircraft can be used to feed the growing hub machine.

Bottom line is YHM-YQM didnt fit their hub and spoke model. Thats why it went away. Swoop will do well in YQM

Wasn't Hamilton Westjets hub from 2000 to 2010 for eastern Canada anyways? They just moved it to Pearson. It's hard in the LCC business models to operate one aircraft type out of secondary airports in a country like Canada. That's how Southwest and Ryanair did it, but in bigger markets. I wish Swoop well but...

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Bishop2047

St John's and Quebec City are two that come to mind as the "most screwed over" Quebec could easily be a major port if entry and have alot of direct flight be so much is just directed to other hubs.

Yes, it is actually the intermediate sized airports like Quebec City and St. John's that are the most thoroughly screwed over by the hub and spoke model. I can imagine how galling it is to have to backtrack to Halifax or even Toronto from St. John's in order to fly to Dublin, especially when you used to have a popular direct to Dublin flight that was yanked for no particularly good reason.

Smaller airports (probably with fewer than about 400,000 PAX) probably have to make do with the hub and spoke model. YQM in Moncton is a bit of a "tweener" airport. We're too small to justify trans Atlantic operations, but probably could have more domestic North American routes in the absence of a hub and spoke model, perhaps to places like St. John's, Quebec City and Boston.

[J81]

Originally Posted by Sunnybrae

Wasn't Hamilton Westjets hub from 2000 to 2010 for eastern Canada anyways? They just moved it to Pearson. It's hard in the LCC business models to operate one aircraft type out of secondary airports in a country like Canada. That's how Southwest and Ryanair did it, but in bigger markets. I wish Swoop well but...

Yes YHM was their eastern hub. You could connect through YHM to YEG, YYC and YVR. Nowhere near the scale their YYZ hub has become.

“You wish Swoop well but...” but what?

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Bishop2047

St John's and Quebec City are two that come to mind as the "most screwed over" Quebec could easily be a major port if entry and have alot of direct flight be so much is just directed to other hubs.

Winnipeg (a city of similar size and a capital) has PAX of 4.5 mil. While Quebec sits at 1 8 mil.

If any of you frequent the national airport thread I don't have to tell you that the Newfoundlanders are not to pleased to lose busy international flights to Halifax. I can not imagine having to backtrack to make an international flight in the way that they are forced to so often.

Quebec City isn't screwed over, it's just a smaller city near a much larger metropolitan area while Winnipeg the biggest city within a reasonable travel distance.

Meanwhile in Atlantic Canada there will soon be more people living just in metro Halifax than in all of Newfoundland and Labrador. And when you look at how many people live near YHZ vs. YYT the gap is even bigger. YYT is not even accessible for a lot of Newfoundlanders due to the geography of the island.

[Bishop2047]

Originally Posted by someone123

Quebec City isn't screwed over, it's just a smaller city near a much larger metropolitan area while Winnipeg the biggest city within a reasonable travel distance.

Meanwhile in Atlantic Canada there will soon be more people living just in metro Halifax than in all of Newfoundland and Labrador. And when you look at how many people live near YHZ vs. YYT the gap is even bigger. YYT is not even accessible for a lot of Newfoundlanders due to the geography of the island.

While there is no doubt the Halifax airport is well situated and serves a good chunk of all Atlantic Canada, Quebec City most certainly is "screwed" by the hub and spoke model. The city alone is nearly twice the population of Halifax while both also service many surrounding cities. I would love to see how many would utilize Quebec city if it had more domestic direct options. Obviously Montreal will always be a major factor, but the areas North of Quebec city and Quebec city would certainly appreciate an easing of hub and spoke mentality.

[Sunnybrae]

Originally Posted by J81

Yes YHM was their eastern hub. You could connect through YHM to YEG, YYC and YVR. Nowhere near the scale their YYZ hub has become.

“You wish Swoop well but...” but what?

That the LCC business model is hard to make work in Canada, that's all.

Here is an interesting article not necessarily just about LCC's but commercial aviation in Canada.

https://westernaviationnews.com/2019/05/08/swoop-westjet-weak-financial-travel-results/

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Bishop2047

While there is no doubt the Halifax airport is well situated and serves a good chunk of all Atlantic Canada, Quebec City most certainly is "screwed" by the hub and spoke model. The city alone is nearly twice the population of Halifax while both also service many surrounding cities. I would love to see how many would utilize Quebec city if it had more domestic direct options. Obviously Montreal will always be a major factor, but the areas North of Quebec city and Quebec city would certainly appreciate an easing of hub and spoke mentality.

There's an economic motivation for hub and spoke. It's easier to concentrate infrastructure in one spot and there are network effects. It's impractical to have connections between every airport and there's a big advantage to having hubs that offer a wide variety of regular flights only 1 hop away from even small towns. It's arguable if it's even worse to connect to a hub with regular flights than it is to rely on a local flight that only happens once or twice a week. The pricing definitely gets better at larger airports where there's competition between airlines. You might get competition for Toronto or Halifax flights out of YYT or YYG but you are not going to see a big market for even flights to US destinations.

If we are talking about average service levels and costs for flights I think the Maritimes suffer from having too many airports, not too much concentration. Newfoundland meanwhile is never going to have great direct flights because there aren't that many people living there. Just as the Maritimes are less populated than Ontario or Quebec and have fewer options, Newfoundland is a smaller, more distant, and harder to serve market than the Maritimes.

[Bishop2047]

Stanfield total PAX down 3 percent, but international flight numbers are up. Everyone felt the pinch from the MAXs being taken out of service.
Winnipeg was one in particular that had something close to 8 percent first quarter growth and then instantly in the red for the following 3 quarter a with the MAX groundings. We should see a rebound out of Halifax this coming year with more planes being shuffled around.

https://halifaxstanfield.ca/2020/02/hali...llion-passengers-third-consecutive-year/

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Bishop2047

Stanfield total PAX down 3 percent, but international flight numbers are up. Everyone felt the pinch from the MAXs being taken out of service.

Well, that makes me feel better about the 1% decrease in PAX at YQM then........

[ghYHZ]

Charlottetown gets a transcon Redeye from Calgary on WestJet for the summer!

Departs YYC at 1045pm and into YYG at 623am..... so you could be golfing by 9!

The return leave YYG at 7:15a and arrives in Clagary at 9:33a......3/4 of the way across the continent!

http://westjet.mediaroom.com/2020-01-17-...light-bridging-Charlottetown-and-Calgary

[MonctonRad]

Yeah, this was already noted upthread. Presumably this is a shuttle for Japanese tourists going between Banff & Cavendish.

A good catch for YYG though.

[homebody]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Yeah, this was already noted upthread. Presumably this is a shuttle for Japanese tourists going between Banff & Cavendish.

A good catch for YYG though.

Man thus comment just oozes with envy lol. As I stated before when somebody else posted this because they were proud and excited. They (meaning Japanese people) obviously didn't want to see magic mountain. I am sure there are many more people out there that would love to see PEI beside the Japanese.

[billy1]

Originally Posted by homebody

Man thus comment just oozes with envy lol. As I stated before when somebody else posted this because they were proud and excited. They (meaning Japanese people) obviously didn't want to see magic mountain. I am sure there are many more people out there that would love to see PEI beside the Japanese.

Yep. Agree 120%.
The tiny village of Charlottetown cannot compete against the Mega Metro Moncton (MMM) area.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by homebody

Man thus comment just oozes with envy lol. As I stated before when somebody else posted this because they were proud and excited. They (meaning Japanese people) obviously didn't want to see magic mountain. I am sure there are many more people out there that would love to see PEI beside the Japanese.

I don't know where you and billy1 are coming from on this. There was not one iota of envy intended in my post, and I really resent this character assassination by both of you.

How dare you assume what my motivations are!!!

I said it was a good catch for the Charlottetown Airport, and I meant it.

MODS - please delete the above two posts (as well as this one), because they were needlessly and intentionally inflammatory in their intent.

I am really pissed off about this. If this character assassination continues, I may request warnings, perhaps leading to suspensions from the forums, if not outright banishment.

Grow up the two of you..........

[billy1]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I don't know where you and billy1 are coming from on this. There was not one iota of envy intended in my post, and I really resent this character assassination by both of you.

How dare you assume what my motivations are!!!

I said it was a good catch for the Charlottetown Airport, and I meant it.

MODS - please delete the above two posts (as well as this one), because they were needlessly and intentionally inflammatory in their intent.

I am really pissed off about this. If this character assassination continues, I may request warnings, perhaps leading to suspensions from the forums, if not outright banishment.

Grow up the two of you..........

Are you kidding me ?

Your passive aggressive comments against Charlottetown are on the board for everyone to see. And then you always preface it with " I was born in Charlottetown......"

[NBNYer]

Originally Posted by billy1

Are you kidding me ?

Your passive aggressive comments against Charlottetown

There was nothing of the sort posted. It’s quite strange to see this escalate out of nowhere.

[billy1]

Originally Posted by NBNYer

There was nothing of the sort posted. It’s quite strange to see this escalate out of nowhere.

Just look on the previous page....

Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
I was speaking from my own experiences from growing up there.

Then why do you generalize with a statement about all individuals from PEI, made in the present tense?

Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
I grew up on PEI. Islanders are homebodies (no disrespect)

This just perpetuates stereotypes.


Was this a compliment ???? Kinda like "They're overweight, but they're pretty" Kinda like that ??

I have no problem calling a spade a spade.

[homebody]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I don't know where you and billy1 are coming from on this. There was not one iota of envy intended in my post, and I really resent this character assassination by both of you.

How dare you assume what my motivations are!!!

I said it was a good catch for the Charlottetown Airport, and I meant it.

MODS - please delete the above two posts (as well as this one), because they were needlessly and intentionally inflammatory in their intent.

I am really pissed off about this. If this character assassination continues, I may request warnings, perhaps leading to suspensions from the forums, if not outright banishment.

Grow up the two of you..........

Really. It’s not a character assassination. Just saying what I felt. I never said anything bad about your character. Look we all know how you feel about everywhere else getting ahead of Moncton. Just put on you big boy or girl pants.