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  #12201  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2020, 12:41 AM
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It's not that I don't like it, I still think its a great view, I just like the other old Montreal/port view better.

Didn't think complementing an angle of a skyline would be so controversial...
     
     
  #12202  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2020, 1:25 AM
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  #12203  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2020, 1:46 AM
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Originally Posted by LeftCoaster View Post
My preference is not the bridge, the gaps bother me, it makes the skyline appear so shallow and linear. I much prefer the Angle posted by SkahHigh, so much more texture and layers.

And I've been to the lookout at Mt Royal several times, it's a nice view, but I just can't get over the big gaps. Personal preference is all.
The table top is what takes away from the skyline for me. I much prefer angles where it's not as noticeable. From the Mont Royal lookout those narrow canyon streets are the draw more than the skyline. It find it jarring having all those buildings pretty much the same height.
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  #12204  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2020, 4:15 AM
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  #12205  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2020, 4:44 AM
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Originally Posted by LeftCoaster View Post
It's not that I don't like it, I still think its a great view, I just like the other old Montreal/port view better.

Didn't think complementing an angle of a skyline would be so controversial...
I can't say I particularly like the mountain view. My favourite view in person is from the memorial clock tower followed by Champlain Bridge. i think what turns me off of the mountain view is the lack of symmetry. The east side has a perfect build up of interesting buildings with cool lighting and roof elements while on the west side it basically plummets down to mostly a bland sea of non-descript slabs, previously after CIBC and 1250 RL, and now after a few tall/thin condos that are nearly the same height. The east side has a variety of shapes and heights, the west side has just tall and thin, then drops off.

It doesn't help that 1250 RL's worst angle is the view from the mountain. With a lot of buildings that have both a fat side and a thin side, the thin side is the best since it looks taller. But with this one the thin side is the worst because it has no architectural interest and lacks gravitas compared to the other talls that are around the same height while looking more substantial. It honestly took me about a year to recognise that the 1250 RL in the views from port was actually the same building I was seeing in the Mount Royal views.
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  #12206  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2020, 3:27 PM
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Originally Posted by SkahHigh View Post
     
     
  #12207  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2020, 5:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
Outside of skyscraper enthusiasts and a few developers? No. It isn't considered important enough to even think about. Generally there are two sides to the debate: Those who hate tall buildings (some who get worked up to the point of a panic attack over the idea that one might be constructed) and those who are mostly indifferent. They want more development and don't like to see barriers that could reduce the city's growth, raise prices, etc. so they're fine if highrises are built but not terribly concerned either way, at least at this point when we can still increase growth and density through smaller scale projects. I don't think I've ever heard anyone who was actually worked up about taller buildings not being permitted outside of these forums.
One factor in Halifax's case is that there are fewer and fewer good sites to build on in the old downtown area anyway, and downtown is growing beyond the area that is covered by viewplanes and meaningful ramparts height limits. The Cogswell sites are one regrettable exception to this.

I am not sure any of the top 5 tallest buildings proposed or under construction in Halifax right now are in the area now considered to be downtown. Taller buildings are proposed for Spring Garden West, Quinpool and Robie, Midtown North, King's Wharf, and there's supposedly a 30 storey or so building under construction around the Northwest Arm (that is being built as-of-right with no public renderings released). These areas adjacent to downtown that are getting 25-35 storey buildings now are the ones that will be considered a part of downtown in 10-20 years. Just as "downtown" grew to encompass Spring Garden Road after WWII. Buildings like Spring Garden West (30 floors) will show up in a lot of skyline photos too.
     
     
  #12208  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2020, 6:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftCoaster View Post
My preference is not the bridge, the gaps bother me, it makes the skyline appear so shallow and linear. I much prefer the Angle posted by SkahHigh, so much more texture and layers.

And I've been to the lookout at Mt Royal several times, it's a nice view, but I just can't get over the big gaps. Personal preference is all.
I'm with you, I haven't been to Montreal to judge in person, but the pic you quoted is the nicest angle to me as well.
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  #12209  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2020, 6:18 PM
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  #12210  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2020, 6:21 PM
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Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
One factor in Halifax's case is that there are fewer and fewer good sites to build on in the old downtown area anyway, and downtown is growing beyond the area that is covered by viewplanes and meaningful ramparts height limits. The Cogswell sites are one regrettable exception to this.

I am not sure any of the top 5 tallest buildings proposed or under construction in Halifax right now are in the area now considered to be downtown. Taller buildings are proposed for Spring Garden West, Quinpool and Robie, Midtown North, King's Wharf, and there's supposedly a 30 storey or so building under construction around the Northwest Arm (that is being built as-of-right with no public renderings released). These areas adjacent to downtown that are getting 25-35 storey buildings now are the ones that will be considered a part of downtown in 10-20 years. Just as "downtown" grew to encompass Spring Garden Road after WWII. Buildings like Spring Garden West (30 floors) will show up in a lot of skyline photos too.
For all we know, Halifax may develop into a major city 100 years from now. A new modern downtown might rise with no height restrictions at the foot of the McKay Bridge overlooking the Bedford Basin. The current downtown might end up being to Halifax what Old Quebec/Old Montreal is to Quebec City/Montreal; increasingly a museum frozen in time.
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  #12211  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2020, 6:40 PM
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
For all we know, Halifax may develop into a major city 100 years from now. A new modern downtown might rise with no height restrictions at the foot of the McKay Bridge overlooking the Bedford Basin. The current downtown might end up being to Halifax what Old Quebec/Old Montreal is to Quebec City/Montreal; increasingly a museum frozen in time.
The sad thing is that if this happens the old part of downtown Halifax will be a haphazard mix of heritage buildings and stumpy modern highrises. It would have been much better if the old lower streets were preserved like old Quebec or Montreal and new buildings in the 1960's and later had gone around the Spring Garden Road or Gottingen areas.

The old Halifax that should have been fully preserved:






I completely agree with the sentiment that there's no point in knocking down these old buildings for mediocre modern structures that are heavily compromised by height limits. It would have made more sense to demolish less and build taller. Or demolish nothing and build somewhere else.

One interesting point is that heritage advocates saw height limits as promoting preservation by reducing the economic incentive to demolish (theoretically the gain from demolishing an old 4 storey building to replace it with a new 4 storey building is much lower than the gain from replacing it with a highrise). In practice the economics and timing of these regulations didn't work out at all and it would have been far better to focus directly on protecting heritage instead of trying to remove development pressure. Part of the ineffectiveness can probably be blamed on the unholy alliance between heritage advocates and BANANAs.
     
     
  #12212  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2020, 9:32 PM
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The sad thing is that if this happens the old part of downtown Halifax will be a haphazard mix of heritage buildings and stumpy modern highrises. It would have been much better if the old lower streets were preserved like old Quebec or Montreal and new buildings in the 1960's and later had gone around the Spring Garden Road or Gottingen areas.
Although one thing to keep in mind is that 100 years from now, buildings we consider "modern" or even those being constructed today will be viewed as historic much in the same way that when we walk around QC we think of buildings from 1820 and 1920 as both being historic. For instance, the Chateau Frontenac (opened in 1892) was newer to people in 1920 than 1801 Hollis is to people today (completed 1985). (I think you'll find that buildings in the historic parts of Montreal and QC are also a "haphazard mix" of buildings spanning multiple centuries.
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  #12213  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2020, 9:43 PM
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Although one thing to keep in mind is that 100 years from now, buildings we consider "modern" or even those being constructed today will be viewed as historic much in the same way that when we walk around QC we think of buildings from 1820 and 1920 as both being historic. For instance, the Chateau Frontenac (opened in 1892) was newer to people in 1920 than 1801 Hollis is to people today (completed 1985). (I think you'll find that buildings in the historic parts of Montreal and QC are also a "haphazard mix" of buildings spanning multiple centuries.
I don't think this is true. It's about form and function more than age. The building construction in 1820 just happened to be similar to 1920 while a big break happened after WWII.

There's a difference between fine-grained pedestrian-oriented masonry buildings and something like Scotia Square or the Metro Centre. If these buildings all survive in their current state for hundreds of years, the Metro Centre will still look and function differently from the narrow storefront buildings along Barrington Street.

Maybe some of the mistakes will be replaced or renovated so that they fit in a little better. This happened with the TD building. But the scars can last a long time too. The customs house was torn down nearly 70 years ago and there's still an empty lot there. There were a lot of planning mistakes made in downtown Halifax from about 1950-1990.
     
     
  #12214  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2020, 9:47 PM
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One factor in Halifax's case is that there are fewer and fewer good sites to build on in the old downtown area anyway, and downtown is growing beyond the area that is covered by viewplanes and meaningful ramparts height limits. The Cogswell sites are one regrettable exception to this.

I am not sure any of the top 5 tallest buildings proposed or under construction in Halifax right now are in the area now considered to be downtown. Taller buildings are proposed for Spring Garden West, Quinpool and Robie, Midtown North, King's Wharf, and there's supposedly a 30 storey or so building under construction around the Northwest Arm (that is being built as-of-right with no public renderings released). These areas adjacent to downtown that are getting 25-35 storey buildings now are the ones that will be considered a part of downtown in 10-20 years. Just as "downtown" grew to encompass Spring Garden Road after WWII. Buildings like Spring Garden West (30 floors) will show up in a lot of skyline photos too.
That's all well and good, but those buildings aren't going to impress any of the people on SSP from elsewhere in the country who see the main skyline as overly short and flat and it's not going to prevent them from comparing it to Ottawa. And that's what really gets lost in these types of discussions. Nobody takes the time to consider the feelings of SSP anti-tabletop members from across the country. The city treats them as if they don't even exist, bless their little hearts.
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  #12215  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2020, 9:52 PM
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I don't think this is true. It's about form and function more than age. The building construction in 1820 just happened to be similar to 1920 while a big break happened after WWII.

There's a difference between fine-grained pedestrian-oriented masonry buildings and something like Scotia Square or the Metro Centre. If these buildings all survive in their current state for hundreds of years, the Metro Centre will still look and function differently from the narrow storefront buildings along Barrington Street.

Maybe some of the mistakes will be replaced or renovated so that they fit in a little better. This happened with the TD building. But the scars can last a long time too. The customs house was torn down nearly 70 years ago and there's still an empty lot there. There were a lot of planning mistakes made in downtown Halifax from about 1950-1990.
You could be right, but I honestly don't believe people would have viewed Chateau Frontenac as being similar to most (what were seen as) historic buildings. I mean, for one thing it is almost as tall as 1801 Hollis.

Either way, I doubt we'll have much luck trying to predict how people in 100 years will view today's architecture. In the same way that we see the world wars as a huge turning point in architecture, we have no idea what will be viewed as a turning point between now and then, separating today's architecture from theirs. However, I doubt that the rate of change in the 21st and 22nd centuries will lessen compared to that in the 19th and 20th centuries.
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  #12216  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2020, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
That's all well and good, but those buildings aren't going to impress any of the people on SSP from elsewhere in the country who see the main skyline as overly short and flat and it's not going to prevent them from comparing it to Ottawa. And that's what really gets lost in these types of discussions. Nobody takes the time to consider the feelings of SSP anti-tabletop members from across the country. The city treats them as if they don't even exist, bless their little hearts.
But they will change the skyline views and what counts as the "main" skyline.

The Martello shows up in lots of pictures. It's only around half the height of what Spring Garden West will be. Spring Garden West will be at a 44 m elevation and will be 98 m tall. Purdy's is 88 m tall at an elevation of 0 m. 5415 Cogswell is under construction. 21 storeys tall and a site with 28 m elevation; it's 50% taller than the nearby hotel buildings on Brunswick that are part of the "tabletop" in that last picture. 6009 Quinpool is only 78 m but again on a site with 50 m elevation. Even 7177 Quinpool will probably show up in a bunch of skyline shots. 32 floors, under construction.

Halifax's topography makes the new towers going up "behind" downtown more prominent than they otherwise would be, and on top of that some of them are taller than the buildings downtown because they are not under the same height limits.

Last edited by someone123; Jan 28, 2020 at 10:46 PM.
     
     
  #12217  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2020, 4:38 AM
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  #12218  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2020, 4:51 AM
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From some angles, Toronto...
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Originally Posted by TorontoDrew View Post
...looks like New York designed by a committee from Rotterdam.


Skyline Rotterdam by Peet de Rouw, on Flickr

I think I mean that in a good way.
     
     
  #12219  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2020, 1:10 PM
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^ Rotterdam looks surprisingly "Canadian" from that angle.
     
     
  #12220  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2020, 1:26 PM
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Originally Posted by SaskScraper View Post
Saskatoon Winter image of South Downtown & Riverlanding on South Saskatchewan River bank,
stay "tooned" for Nutrien Tower to rise above them all in 2020.


https://www.facebook.com/UrbanCapital/photos/a.263305620369908/2904242342942876/?type=3&theater
Interesting that Saskatoon's commercial core extends right to the riverfront... you don't really get that in most Canadian cities. Usually the focal point seems to be a bit further inland.
     
     
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