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View Poll Results: Based on options for Broadway Corridor Study, what is your preferred choice?
BRT: Commercial to UBC 25 6.16%
LRT A: Commercial to UBC OR Commercial via VCC to UBC 31 7.64%
LRT B: Main St. to UBC AND Commercial to UBC 18 4.43%
RRT: Commercial to UBC OR VCC to UBC 283 69.70%
COMBO: RRT to Arbutus/LRT to Main St via Arbutus 39 9.61%
BUS: Enhanced Bus Service for all buses to UBC 10 2.46%
Voters: 406. You may not vote on this poll

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  #10381  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2020, 12:25 AM
officedweller officedweller is offline
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Originally Posted by djmk View Post
I was talking to someone at UBC the other day and it seems the construction of the skytrain at UBC is going to be a big worry because it could disturb and rattle some very sensitive research equipment.
Yeah, that's the same as at UW in Seattle.
It's not just construction, but ongoing vibrations and electromagnetic interference from train operation.

Sound Transit to pay $43 million for relocation of College of Engineering labs (2014)
http://www.dailyuw.com/news/article_240ef421-8c4f-5e82-bc84-36e3134f2619.html

UW light rail station on shaky ground (2005)
https://www.seattlepi.com/local/transpor...rail-station-on-shaky-ground-1171541.php

Alternative Sound Transit options would protect sensitive research (2003)
https://www.washington.edu/news/2003/12/...ptions-would-protect-sensitive-research/

Last edited by officedweller; Jan 21, 2020 at 12:39 AM.
     
     
  #10382  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2020, 12:47 AM
swimmer_spe swimmer_spe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
Yeah, that's the same as at UW in Seattle.
It's not just construction, but ongoing vibrations and electromagnetic interference from train operation.

Sound Transit to pay $43 million for relocation of College of Engineering labs (2014)
http://www.dailyuw.com/news/article_240ef421-8c4f-5e82-bc84-36e3134f2619.html

UW light rail station on shaky ground (2005)
https://www.seattlepi.com/local/transpor...rail-station-on-shaky-ground-1171541.php

Alternative Sound Transit options would protect sensitive research (2003)
https://www.washington.edu/news/2003/12/...ptions-would-protect-sensitive-research/
MIT in Boston has had a subway station since 1912, yet it is the top engineering school in the USA. And, Harvard is on the same line, another major, well known university is on a subway line. There has been a subway rumbling under them for over 100 years.
     
     
  #10383  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2020, 12:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
Yeah, that's the same as at UW in Seattle.
It's not just construction, but ongoing vibrations and electromagnetic interference from train operation.

Sound Transit to pay $43 million for relocation of College of Engineering labs (2014)
http://www.dailyuw.com/news/article_240ef421-8c4f-5e82-bc84-36e3134f2619.html

UW light rail station on shaky ground (2005)
https://www.seattlepi.com/local/transpor...rail-station-on-shaky-ground-1171541.php

Alternative Sound Transit options would protect sensitive research (2003)
https://www.washington.edu/news/2003/12/...ptions-would-protect-sensitive-research/
woah. crazy
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  #10384  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2020, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by swimmer_spe View Post
MIT in Boston has had a subway station since 1912, yet it is the top engineering school in the USA. And, Harvard is on the same line, another major, well known university is on a subway line. There has been a subway rumbling under them for over 100 years.
Right, and a subway rumbling under them is different than active construction.
     
     
  #10385  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2020, 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by CanSpice View Post
Right, and a subway rumbling under them is different than active construction.
The thing I was replying including the paying of moving the labs after 10 years.
     
     
  #10386  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2020, 1:33 AM
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Originally Posted by swimmer_spe View Post
The thing I was replying including the paying of moving the labs after 10 years.
maybe different equipment
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  #10387  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2020, 1:39 AM
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So who's picking up the bill in case of a relocation? Better not be TransLink.
     
     
  #10388  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2020, 2:26 AM
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Do we really think that UBC (at least while on campus) would be tunneled? There's no shortage of space to put a conventional guideway.
     
     
  #10389  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2020, 2:47 AM
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Wouldn't an elevated option produce the same vibrations and EM interference?
     
     
  #10390  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2020, 5:10 AM
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They're going to tunnel in to UBC? I assumed that after Alma (or thereabouts), the track would elevate and become more like the traditional skytrain we all know and love.
     
     
  #10391  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2020, 5:20 AM
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Originally Posted by giallo View Post
They're going to tunnel in to UBC? I assumed that after Alma (or thereabouts), the track would elevate and become more like the traditional skytrain we all know and love.
nothing west of Arbutus has been finalized and/or confirmed and/or decided as of yet. so no one go jumping to conclusions yet!
     
     
  #10392  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2020, 9:01 AM
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Originally Posted by swimmer_spe View Post
If it can take an earthquake, it can take construction of a tunnel.
They're probably concerned about the worlds largest cyclotron particle accelerator (TRIUMF) but that's closer to Marine Drive.
     
     
  #10393  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2020, 1:54 PM
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Well since U.B.C. has been so eager to chip in on this extension, we can just make the university cover most of the cost to work around this issue.
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  #10394  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2020, 3:19 PM
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Well that is some one talking out of there 🞵🞵🞵.. As UBC has been ongoing construction for 25 years. Its not like it was frozen in time from 1950. There has been piles driven, excavations dug concrete poured. So why would a tunnel make any difference. And most sensitive electronics etc are shielded.
     
     
  #10395  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2020, 8:02 PM
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A few years ago I was involved in setting up a lab a couple of blocks off of Broadway. Contractors and suppliers would point out the inevitable Bway subway coming and laugh at us.

The sensitive equipment issue is one of the reasons the Bway subway isn't being built under 10th; too close to the research and diagnostic labs at the hospital. A lot can be done in the way of shielding and isolation to protect most equipment. But good luck convincing a herd of influential researchers that it will "probably" be ok. It becomes an exercise in risk analysis and mitigation.

Even if everything appears to have gone well, expect every failed experiment/test to be blamed on the new transit line (some legitimately).

Last edited by Hmoob; Jan 21, 2020 at 8:13 PM.
     
     
  #10396  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2020, 9:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swimmer_spe View Post
MIT in Boston has had a subway station since 1912, yet it is the top engineering school in the USA. And, Harvard is on the same line, another major, well known university is on a subway line. There has been a subway rumbling under them for over 100 years.
Quote:
To protect the University’s competitive advantage in research — both current and future capabilities — the UW has worked with Sound Transit and identified a threshold for vibration and electromagnetic interference that would protect not only current research but future research. Few other urban campuses enjoy the same level of vibration stillness that the UW has, which gives the UW a competitive advantage as it recruits top researchers from around the country.
https://www.washington.edu/news/2003/12/...ptions-would-protect-sensitive-research/
     
     
  #10397  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2020, 6:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Kisai View Post
They're probably concerned about the worlds largest cyclotron particle accelerator (TRIUMF) but that's closer to Marine Drive.
That cyclotron has a fairly large diameter beam in comparison to something like a synchrotron. I could see the University of Saskatchewan Light Source being concerned. But even there there are a number of these types of machine in close proximity to subway lines or even high speed rail lines.
     
     
  #10398  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2020, 3:41 PM
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So what now? Reroute the skytrain/subway down Alma then 16th?
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  #10399  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2020, 5:49 PM
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Originally Posted by casper View Post
That cyclotron has a fairly large diameter beam in comparison to something like a synchrotron. I could see the University of Saskatchewan Light Source being concerned. But even there there are a number of these types of machine in close proximity to subway lines or even high speed rail lines.
It's not just the cyclotron. It's potentially every engineering, physics, chemistry, and biology lab that could be exposed to a change in EMF or vibration.

Setting up a new lab involves controlling for normal background signals and establishing a baseline. When the background changes, this needs to be redone. Flickering fluorescent lights in an animal facility, even if imperceptible to our eyes, have the potential to impact animal behavior and response and need to be controlled for. Even minor environmental changes can and do impact the quality of experimental data.

Some research facilities may have been built near rail transit, but it has always been part of their environment. It's the potential for poorly characterized change in background signal that becomes very difficult to mitigate. The whole impact can't be known until after the train is running, and enough data has been collected afterwards to show what differences can be confidently correlated.

None of this means transit can't or shouldn't be built near research labs, it just warrants proceeding with open eyes.
     
     
  #10400  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2020, 7:56 PM
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Originally Posted by giallo View Post
They're going to tunnel in to UBC? I assumed that after Alma (or thereabouts), the track would elevate and become more like the traditional skytrain we all know and love.
The Point Grey NIMBYs would literally revolt against the government with arms.
     
     
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