Gas Prices

[s211]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

I filled up at 95.9 in GP today at Costco. Most places were 99.9 - 106.9

Bbbbbbbbut Gas Buddy says that in Edmonton it's 87.9 at Costco and 83.9 at Co-op!!! You're still getting ripped off by big oil!

[SpongeG]

its 116.9 up in northern alberta still

[WestCoastEcho]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

In all markets with fungible goods - otherwise there is an arbitrage opportunity and the market will clear and settle at the marginal price. There is no reason to leave money on the table.

Correct.

And don't think that even if they sell into the Lower Mainland at a lower price, the opposite could occur; if a Lower Mainland wholesaler sells at $0.99 a litre, but Washington State wholesalers are selling at an equivalent of $1.19 a litre, what's stopping a Washington State buyer from noticing and snapping up supply from the Lower Mainland wholesaler?

No laws to prevent that; all you need is either empty trucks, barges, or train cars to load up in the Lower Mainland and head south with the fuel. And there's no legal way to stop it too, due to various free trade agreements and the WTO.

[Sheba]

Is this a coincidence?

Harley-Davidson is hoping to become known for something other than its rumbling hogs — an all-electric motorcycle that hums rather than roars.

Over the weekend, it showed off its Livewire motorcycle at dealerships in Vancouver.

"This is the future, the beginning of electric motorcycles," said Jeff Martinez with the company.

Harley-Davidson is the first major manufacturer to offer electric motorcycles at dealerships. Only 1,800 have been built this year, with the sticker price around $37,000.

...

Martinez says the company wants to move into the future with electric vehicles, just like car manufacturers are.

"This would be a fantastic commuter bike," he said.

Enthusiasts who went to dealerships in Vancouver to check out the bike mostly say they are impressed with it.

...

[MalcolmTucker]

A thread which works out the link between YVR gas prices and pipeline capacity:
https://twitter.com/GK_Fellows/status/1200514060455796736

After reading this last night, I spent a bit of time throwing a few data series together and doing some rudimentary statistical/regression analysis. So, I present to you, a thread on Trans-Mountain Apportionment and the YVR rack price.
https://twitter.com/GK_Fellows

[ClaytonA]

The economist's premise is wrong.
The 13 cents difference is between the Seattle area and YVR.
Higher pipeline apportionment should raise prices in Seattle by the same percentage as in YVR. What logical reason would higher apportionment result in Anacortes refineries lowering the supply of gasoline to YVR versus Seattle?

He misunderstood the issue, probably due to media headlines and an Albertan bias/belief towards how important their oil is to YVR gas prices.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by ClaytonA

The economist's premise is wrong.
The 13 cents difference is between the Seattle area and YVR.
Higher pipeline apportionment should raise prices in Seattle by the same percentage as in YVR. What logical reason would higher apportionment result in Anacortes refineries lowering the supply of gasoline to YVR versus Seattle?

He misunderstood the issue, probably due to media headlines and an Albertan bias/belief towards how important their oil is to YVR gas prices.

The market isn't perfect between BC and Washington. For whatever reason.

[WestCoastEcho]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

The market isn't perfect between BC and Washington. For whatever reason.

BC's market is constrained by whatever feed that can be supplied via the Trans Mountain pipeline and from whatever can be barged/trucked/railed in.

Washington is different; they can import fuel in from other jurisdictions via feed stock from Trans Mountain, Alaska, rail shipments from out east, and international markets. Their supply chain is fully setup for importing fuel and oil.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by WestCoastEcho

BC's market is constrained by whatever feed that can be supplied via the Trans Mountain pipeline and from whatever can be barged/trucked/railed in.

Washington is different; they can import fuel in from other jurisdictions via feed stock from Trans Mountain, Alaska, rail shipments from out east, and international markets. Their supply chain is fully setup for importing fuel and oil.

Probably as simple as not enough trucks. Because who is going to make that investment when demand varies considerably month to month.



I wonder if even increased coordination would allow more barges into Suncor and Imperial - like scheduling the apportionment volumes out an extra 2-4 weeks. Otherwise, unless someone is going to build a new wholesale terminal closer to the border, it is still going to be incredibly inefficient to bring in trucks. It is maybe a 3 hour round trip if traffic isn't atrocious from Cherry Point to either of those terminals. 4 hours for Shell near Anacortes. Plus loading and unloading, any extra friction at the border.

[WestCoastEcho]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Probably as simple as not enough trucks. Because who is going to make that investment when demand varies considerably month to month.



I wonder if even increased coordination would allow more barges into Suncor and Imperial - like scheduling the apportionment volumes out an extra 2-4 weeks. Otherwise, unless someone is going to build a new wholesale terminal closer to the border, it is still going to be incredibly inefficient to bring in trucks. It is maybe a 3 hour round trip if traffic isn't atrocious from Cherry Point to either of those terminals. 4 hours for Shell near Anacortes. Plus loading and unloading, any extra friction at the border.

The issue is that the Lower Mainland isn't set up for large scale importing of fuel and oil; the current facilities are set up primarily for export only. Only the Islands can accept regular barge shipments, while the barging in of refined fuel to the Lower Mainland primarily revolves around the supply of jet fuel for YVR.

AFAIK, the only large scale fuel import facility in the Lower Mainland is the under-construction YVR jet fuel terminal and pipeline, which would supplant the existing Trans Mountain spur, and the roughly 70 tanker trucks a day from the US. That new import facility can handle Panamax-sized tankers, which would allow YVR to source jet fuel from overseas.

[WestCoastEcho]

The Supreme Court of Canada has unanimously dismissed the BC government's appeal on a lower court's decision that BC had no jurisdiction to regulate what moves on TMX:

https://biv.com/article/2020/01/supreme-court-dismiesses-bcs-appeal-tmx

Basically, it was reported that the Supreme Court took less than an hour to deliberate, and this was a ruling from the bench; it was that quick in terms of a legal judgment.

This was a very quick and convincing loss for the BC government at the country’s highest court. A pretty decisive rebuke of Premier John Horgan, his top advisors and his Attorney General, David Eby by the courts.

Basically, a big waste of time and money on the part of the BC government when the Supreme Court of Canada basically decides within an hour that you have no case.

And a big waste of money on the part of the Federal government, which had to step in and buy TMX from Kinder Morgan because of BC government's shenanigans.

The only winners? The lawyers.

[s211]

Originally Posted by WestCoastEcho

The Supreme Court of Canada has unanimously dismissed the BC government's appeal on a lower court's decision that BC had no jurisdiction to regulate what moves on TMX:

https://biv.com/article/2020/01/supreme-court-dismiesses-bcs-appeal-tmx

Basically, it was reported that the Supreme Court took less than an hour to deliberate, and this was a ruling from the bench; it was that quick in terms of a legal judgment.

This was a very quick and convincing loss for the BC government at the country’s highest court. A pretty decisive rebuke of Premier John Horgan, his top advisors and his Attorney General, David Eby by the courts.

Basically, a big waste of time and money on the part of the BC government when the Supreme Court of Canada basically decides within an hour that you have no case.

And a big waste of money on the part of the Federal government, which had to step in and buy TMX from Kinder Morgan because of BC government's shenanigans.

The only winners? The lawyers.

I agree with you on all points and had to chuckle at this line from BC's lawyer in a CBC report:

"The pile-on by the justices over B.C.'s legal rationale was so intense that, by day's end, Arvay conceded the obvious: he likely wasn't going to win the appeal. "If I'm not going to win the appeal, I don't want to lose badly," he said in his final reply."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/supreme-court-bc-reference-trans-mountain-1.5429423

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by WestCoastEcho

Basically, a big waste of time and money on the part of the BC government when the Supreme Court of Canada basically decides within an hour that you have no case.

Sometimes you have to go through the motions in order to demonstrate to the voters that you've done your best.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Sometimes you have to go through the motions in order to demonstrate to the voters that you've done your best.

Yeah like Christy Clark trying to F-over the teachers.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Sometimes you have to go through the motions in order to demonstrate to the voters that you've done your best.

More like trying to appease a highly polarized group that won't take "no" for an answer.

Any law student could have told you that it was tantamount to ursurping Federal jurisdiction. If allowed it would have been a slippery slope to Provincial regulation of other interprovincial transport like railways or shipping.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Politics is about empty gestures - now the province can turn to the voters who oppose the pipeline and go "well, we tried everything we could." If only they cared as much about old growth logging and habitat fragmentation...

Me, I can see both sides of it. On the downside, we're taking on half the risk for none of the profit, and we're spending billions to prop up a dwindling and volatile industry (which voted against Trudeau anyway) instead of pushing Alberta to diversify.

[WestCoastEcho]

Number of gas stations have run out of gas due to a combination of weather and refinery shutdowns:

https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/01/18/gas-shortage-snow/

VANCOUVER (CityNews) — The worst of this week’s storm may have passed but frustration for drivers persists.

Gas stations in Burnaby, Vancouver and Delta are turning drivers away because they’re out of fuel on Saturday. A station in Pitt Meadows was forced to sell Premium for the prize of Bronze on Wednesday because they too had run out of regular.

[bluefox]

Originally Posted by WestCoastEcho

Number of gas stations have run out of gas due to a combination of weather and refinery shutdowns:

https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/01/18/gas-shortage-snow/

And "91 for the price of 87" is not actually a benefit to some drivers as switching octanes can actually have a negative effect on fuel economy or cause damage. Nor does it turn your vehicle into a race car

[jollyburger]

Weird that they dropped gas prices to 129.9 on Friday night

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Weird that they dropped gas prices to 129.9 on Friday night

Wait are you saying gas prices aren't based logically on supply and demand?