Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by daud

We have a full-on lemon on our hands. I have no idea where the city goes from here. Maybe by spring the dust will settle but man this has been quite the sh#% show of a rollout/first 6 months.

As others have mentioned, things have been going pretty well lately. It feels like when there is an issue, they are better at figuring it out quickly. The more recent issues, on NYE and today, seem to be of a different cause than the earlier door/computer/switch issues. New problems will take longer to solve, but the next time something occurs, they'll have more experience dealing with issues. Saying that we bought a lemon is a huge jump, akin to saying that car transportation is a lemon idea because of the high fatality rate, or bus transportation is a lemon because buses get stuck in traffic. Both of those things are real problems, but you don't blame the entire system of roads, signals and vehicles. Instead, you acknowledge that individual sub-systems have faults, and you deal with those faults.

I will say that I was coming though Hurdman at 5pm today, and the transition to buses was moving really well. I did see pictures from a few minutes earlier that showed a different story, but it looked like bus operations were keeping up with the crowds very well at the time I was there.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

But, there was a response to that critical break in the Trans-Canada Highway. They have built redundancy by building a second bridge at that location.

Nope. The old bridge was torn down. So, no redundancy.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Nope. The old bridge was torn down. So, no redundancy.

That is not correct. The bridge that failed was brand new and was repaired. It was the former bridge that was demolished. The bridge has since been twinned.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nipigon_River_Bridge

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

That is not correct. The bridge that failed was brand new and was repaired. It was the former bridge that was demolished. The bridge has since been twinned.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nipigon_River_Bridge

The twinning in that case though was always planned as part of a highway widening. In fact the twin bridge was already getting ready to be built when the new bridge failed. It wasn't really for redundancy purposes, although that is a side benefit.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

That is not correct. The bridge that failed was brand new and was repaired. It was the former bridge that was demolished. The bridge has since been twinned.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nipigon_River_Bridge

https://www.google.com/maps/@49.0193794,...G-4OTu1ht8XIWqQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en

Yup, redundancy... when both sides of it are connected and if it happens again, the highway is shut down in both directions again.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

https://www.google.com/maps/@49.0193794,...G-4OTu1ht8XIWqQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en

Yup, redundancy... when both sides of it are connected and if it happens again, the highway is shut down in both directions again.

Micheal, the actual term is undivided. I was concerned too when I saw the google views though.

Anyway, how did we stray from talking about C Line to TCH? I’m thankful that the moderators for the Ontario section are pretty lenient about digression though. B.C. and Alberta (especially Vancouver) subsection? Not so much...

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Micheal, the actual term is undivided. I was concerned too when I saw the google views though.

Anyway, how did we stray from talking about C Line to TCH? I’m thankful that the moderators for the Ontario section are pretty lenient about digression though. B.C. and Alberta (especially Vancouver) subsection? Not so much...

Well, the post about a lack of redundancy in the C line and the fact it happened in winter made me think about this issue. It is as though engineers forget that we get winter.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

https://www.google.com/maps/@49.0193794,...G-4OTu1ht8XIWqQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en

Yup, redundancy... when both sides of it are connected and if it happens again, the highway is shut down in both directions again.

My point is that there is importance in having redundancy in any transportation plan. I illustrated this with what happened with the TCH at Nipigon when the bridge failed causing a disconnection between eastern and western Canada. The following link does talk specifically about redundancy being part of the bridge plan.

https://www.chroniclejournal.com/news/se...9157f32-bba2-11e5-81e2-e3a8de7e94c4.html

Yes, we need to return to discussion about the C-Line but I was making a point that is relevant to what has happened with the C-Line.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

My point is that there is importance in having redundancy in any transportation plan. I illustrated this with what happened with the TCH at Nipigon when the bridge failed causing a disconnection between eastern and western Canada. The following link does talk specifically about redundancy being part of the bridge plan.

https://www.chroniclejournal.com/news/se...9157f32-bba2-11e5-81e2-e3a8de7e94c4.html

Yes, we need to return to discussion about the C-Line but I was making a point that is relevant to what has happened with the C-Line.

A redundancy would be a separate line that people could transfer to to get around the problem. That would be a Stage 3 and beyond thing.

[11a2b3]

https://twitter.com/CTVOttMornLive/status/1218134630852911106

LOL

[caveat.doctor]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Individual cases don't necessarily mean that there is not a net gain, but we have seen so many instances where people have been driven away from transit by a variety of changes over the years. Once somebody leaves the system as a regular user, it is very difficult to win them back. I know. I am one of them. Once we see some ridership figures, we will have a better idea. Some previous changes were not kind to OC Transpo.

Exactly. And besides winning former users back, I suspect that it's easier to lose previously-committed riders than gain new ones. People who are already car commuters presumably already have their spent costs on the car, plus have life schedules to match, so transit has to win them over on a few fronts (time, convenience, cost, etc), and reliably so to cause a shift in habit. I can see how this might be the case for those served by Line 1 so far, but not for those whose bus service was reduced despite not being served by train yet in Phase 1. Data will tell, hope to see there was an overall gain, but again I doubt it.

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

A redundancy would be a separate line that people could transfer to to get around the problem. That would be a Stage 3 and beyond thing.

Redundancy to Line 1 could, in the meantime, be provided by restoring crosstown links that were cut. For example, the 103 connected Carling Campus/Moodie in the west to Place d'Orleans in the east via the Queensway, with central service on Catherine/Chamberlain - so during yesterday's train shut down, downtown people heading east could have walked to it, connected via the 10 on Bronson or the 6/7 on Bank as an alternative to crowding Hurdman and the R1s. It served a different area than that covered by Line 1, but would have provided crosstown redundancy during train shutdowns.



-

Of course, kudos to all the staff who worked through the night to get Line 1 back up and running!

[Dengler Avenue]

That, and we need to get some people out of the office because they don’t seem to know what they’re doing.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

It was called the Baseline BRT

There is no need to build rail on every frequent route but it would be nice to invest a little bit in some priority routes.

How much more you willing to pay in taxes and/or fares? This is what it comes down to.

Building the LRT through the core wasn't just about capacity. It was about cost too. What you're proposing is to underutilize the Confederation Line to provide better service to those in the Southern half of the city. It's a fantastic idea that I agree with. But I doubt most people are onboard with paying more for such an improvement. If they were, we wouldn't have 30 min bus service in far too many places in this city.

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

That, and we need to get some people out of the office because they don’t seem to know what they’re doing.

Kudos to you. Engineers that never see the light of day and have no actual real live experience are not real engineers. Training and education is important but sometimes real life experiences are more important.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

How much more you willing to pay in taxes and/or fares? This is what it comes down to.

Building the LRT through the core wasn't just about capacity. It was about cost too. What you're proposing is to underutilize the Confederation Line to provide better service to those in the Southern half of the city. It's a fantastic idea that I agree with. But I doubt most people are onboard with paying more for such an improvement. If they were, we wouldn't have 30 min bus service in far too many places in this city.

If we focus too much on only one thing, we limit possible gains. Strategic investments will gain ridership and revenue. Other cities have demonstrated this. These investments on secondary routes don't have to be in the billions.

We aren't going to 'underutilize' the Confederation Line with some well thought out parallel service. Every city provides parallel service to their subways. It won't be on exactly the same corridor. That is overkill. But we also have to minimize the last mile problem as well and part of the answer is parallel routes, not just feeder service.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

How much more you willing to pay in taxes and/or fares? This is what it comes down to.

Building the LRT through the core wasn't just about capacity. It was about cost too. What you're proposing is to underutilize the Confederation Line to provide better service to those in the Southern half of the city. It's a fantastic idea that I agree with. But I doubt most people are onboard with paying more for such an improvement. If they were, we wouldn't have 30 min bus service in far too many places in this city.

Sorry, why would building Baseline BRT result in underutilization of the Confederation Line? Line 1 is obviously our busiest and most important transit line but it doesn’t make sense to feed every trip into it, especially cross-town trips in the south. Those trips are probably not using Line 1 today. Baseline is already a really busy transit route that would be even busier with better infrastructure. It would make the buses more efficient since they would not be stuck in traffic, which is good for the bottom line.

We should be trying to raise overall transit ridership, not just maxing out Line 1 or cutting costs to the bone.

We have 30 minute bus service in lots of places, but Baseline is not one of them. Most places with 30 minute service are like that because they have low density.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

If we focus too much on only one thing, we limit possible gains. Strategic investments will gain ridership and revenue. Other cities have demonstrated this. These investments on secondary routes don't have to be in the billions.

We aren't going to 'underutilize' the Confederation Line with some well thought out parallel service. Every city provides parallel service to their subways. It won't be on exactly the same corridor. That is overkill. But we also have to minimize the last mile problem as well and part of the answer is parallel routes, not just feeder service.

This all sounds great in theory. But if you're not feeding the Confederation Line then you are back to moving commuters on a bus 50 pax at a time. That's expensive.

As for parallel service being cost efficient/effective from boosted ridership, let me introduce you to Toronto's Sheppard subway.

Now, I don't doubt that the Baseline BRT is cheap to build, and I believe it's in the TMP. But moving ridership from the Confederation Line specifically onto that instead of employing the corridor as an alternative for those not bound for the core, would make it very cost inefficient.

[rocketphish]

'Not the level of service our customers are expecting': Apologies once again offered after latest LRT issue
It wasn't a good day for OC Transpo or Rideau Transit Maintenance, the affiliate of the Rideau Transit Group contracted to maintain and repair the $2.1-billion rail system.

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: January 17, 2020

LRT maintenance workers are double-checking parts of the overhead catenary system along the 12.5-kilometre transit system after Thursday’s wire break near St. Laurent Station.

It wasn’t a good day for OC Transpo or Rideau Transit Maintenance, the affiliate of the Rideau Transit Group contracted to maintain and repair the $2.1-billion rail system.

First the overhead wire snapped around 10:50 a.m., stopping an eastbound train and shutting down the LRT line east of Hurdman Station in both directions. The outage lasted for the rest of the day. Transpo redirected 70 buses to run replacement transit service between Hurdman and Blair stations.



There were backups at Hurdman Station during the afternoon commute as people were forced to get off trains and transfer to the R1 replacement bus service. Then a group of customers were stuck in an elevator at the station for more than a half hour before they were freed by staff.

Regular LRT service resumed Friday morning.

Transit officials were back at the microphones Friday morning to explain what happened, this time along with Mayor Jim Watson and transit commission chair Allan Hubley.

Everyone was once again apologizing for a problem on the LRT system.

“I want to sincerely apologize,” Watson said at Transpo headquarters on St. Laurent Boulevard. “This is not the level of service that our customers are expecting and it’s certainly not the level of service that we want to be offering to those men, women and children who rely on OC Transpo.”

The exact cause of the broken wire was still under examination, but officials have focused on a connection of two kinds of overhead infrastructure that power the trains. The train-top pantograph, which is the device that connects the train to the power cables, snagged on the overhead infrastructure.

The overhead power cables change from hanging, like in open-air stations and stretches in between stations outside of the tunnel, to a fixed system on the ceiling inside the tunnels.

Power automatically was cut to the broken wire when it broke.

The damage included bent support bars, marred power insulators and a portion of the overhead wire-support structure affixed to the ceiling of the St. Laurent tunnel. Eighty metres of overhead wire fell.

RTM and Transpo notched a bit of a win by finishing the repairs in time for service launch Friday morning. There had been little optimism that the catenary system could be fixed by 5 a.m., but workers toiled through the night to remove and replace the damaged infrastructure before testing train movements.

Peter Lauch, the CEO of RTM, explained in detail how the repairs were done.

After workers cut the damaged wire from the train, they moved the train east to Blair Station and then back the other way to the maintenance and storage facility on Belfast Road for inspection and repair. Other workers at the facility put together replacement pieces for the damaged infrastructure near St. Laurent Station. Workers at the St. Laurent tunnel removed about 35 metres of damaged overhead power infrastructure. Once the supporting infrastructure was in place, workers fixed the overhead wire and tested the repairs with low-speed trains.

Lauch said workers were checking connection points between the hanging wire and fixed-support infrastructure to make sure they wouldn’t cause similar problems.

It was the first time an overhead wire broke on the LRT system. Officials said that kind of problem could happen and they agreed it was serious.

Watson said he believed the LRT system overall was “working well,” but added that there were too many times when problems impacted many customers negatively.

“I wish I could guarantee the people of Ottawa that there will never be a mechanical issue on the system. I can’t do that in all honesty,” Watson said.

“But what we can do is strive to do better and to ensure that fewer and fewer of our passengers are put in a very untenable, uncomfortable, frustrating situation as they found themselves in (Thursday).”

[email protected]
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...nce-again-offered-after-latest-lrt-issue

[J.OT13]

O-Train Fans has started adding entrances, fare gates, fare vending machines, elevators and escalators to station facts.

So far, these stats have been added for Parliament and Rideau.

Parliament has the highest number of both fare gates and fare vending machines, at 21 and 9 respectively. Rideau has a respecable 15 fare gates, but only 4 fare vending machines, quite low for such a busy station heavily used by tourists. Rideau has an astounding 18 escalators due to its depth (26.5 meters).

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

O-Train Fans has started adding entrances, fare gates, fare vending machines, elevators and escalators to station facts.

So far, these stats have been added for Parliament and Rideau.

Parliament has the highest number of both fare gates and fare vending machines, at 21 and 9 respectively. Rideau has a respecable 15 fare gates, but only 4 fare vending machines, quite low for such a busy station heavily used by tourists. Rideau has an astounding 18 escalators due to its depth (26.5 meters).

I think someone really underestimated the flow through Rideau, and the difference between the Rideau Centre and William street sides. The william street side is fine, but 2 machines on the Rideau Centre side cannot keep up. When one machine has an issue, a lineup quickly develops at the other one. The station, and a couple of others, badly needs additional machines.