VIA Rail network developments

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Great evidence for HFR's thesis of frequency increasing ridership.

Agreed!

Not so great for Lakeshore service at Kingston though. Can fewer and better timed trains actually get higher ridership?

First of all, I am not sure that VIA believes they will increase ridership along the Lakeshore. The question is, can the preserve the existing ridership?

Not only will the trains be better timed, they will have more stops. A train through a community might as well not exist if it doesn't stop at the local station.

Looking at the latest schedule, of the 15 eastbound* departures from Toronto, here are the number of arrivals at each of the stations along the way (I included Gananoque and Brockville as they are arguably an extensions of the Lakeshore):

Oshawa		14

Kingston 	13

Cobourg		9

Belleville	8

Brockville	7

Guildwood	5

Port Hope	3

Napanee		2

Trenton Jct.	2

Gananoque	1

Obviously Oshawa and Kingston will see a reduction in service but most of the other cities will see an increase in service (in some cases a significant increase). There will also be improved connectivity between those intermediary cities as more trains will stop at both cities.

* Eastbound is arguably a better representation of the existing schedule than westbound as Trains 50/60 and 52/62 depart Toronto (and run along the Lakeshore) as a single train (splitting at Brockville), thus the schedule is more evenly distributed. Westbound it isn't feasible to join the trains (due to the potential of delays to one of them) so often trains will run back to back and thus can't really be counted as separate trains.

Does really slow how much traffic is there between the major metros (including their burbs).

Wanted to add. Absolutely amazing work by Johnny Renton.

Agreed. It is a great analysis. Well done Johnny Renton!

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by GoTrans

The service west of Toronto has seen nothing but reductions in frequency over the years since 1990. In 1990 there were 5 trips a day between London - Kitchener - Toronto and 6 trips a day between London - Brantford - Toronto for a total of 11 round trips per day between London and Toronto.

In the Twitter thread, he explains how the VIA ridership declines in SW Ontario can be explained by increased GO service, and that when VIA and GO ridership is combined, actually shows significant increases.

[Truenorth00]

roger,

Thanks for tracking the stop frequencies. Interesting data. Without through traffic, I wonder what level of service can be sustained. Does Kingston get 6 trains each way to reach major metro daily? 10? Do all of them make all stops en route or do they get a few extra services which are express?

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

roger,

Thanks for tracking the stop frequencies. Interesting data. Without through traffic, I wonder what level of service can be sustained. Does Kingston get 6 trains each way to reach major metro daily? 10?

In post #1037, I linked to a map provided by Kingston's Mayer. I don't know where he got the numbers from, or how real they are, but it says that from Kingston there would be:

• 12 trains to Toronto
• 6 trains to Montreal
• 6 trains to Ottawa

If this is correct, the biggest reduction will be in the number of trains between Kingston and Ottawa (though the number of trains between Brockville and Ottawa may actually increase).

In the long run, it might make sense for GO to take over regional service in Ontario (at least west of Kingston) and have VIA focus on intercity service.

Do all of them make all stops en route or do they get a few extra services which are express?

Hard to say. I don't think they would have any trains without any stops between Union and Kingston (like trains 40, 43, and 45 do today)*. They might have some trains with only 1 stop, but not as many as today (trains 42, 44, 63, 67, 69, 647, and 669)*. Looking at eastbound only, 3 of 13 trains to Kingston have 0 or 1 stop.

* Showing trains in both directions. Odd is westbound even is eastbound.

A strange thing is that the 2 eastbound trains that don't stop in Kingston stop in Oshawa/Cobourg/Brockville and Oshawa/Belleville, yet the one train that doesn't stop in Oshawa stops in Kingston only.

[lrt's friend]

Even if Kingston were to become a hub, trains in most cases will not 'end' in Kingston as there will be the need for people to go through Kingston to reach other destinations including the three major cities. HFR will eliminate big city to big city travelers only along the Lakeshore route.

[Allandale25]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/6370...8466248623923/

MEET VIA RAIL's New Fleet (Updated)
This had been in CRO VIA NEWS early last year (as a pdf) but it since been modified improved and uploaded for the Canadian public to see by VIA with the video.
https://corpo.viarail.ca/en/projects...cement-program

[Urban_Sky]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Looking at the latest schedule, of the 15 eastbound* departures from Toronto, here are the number of arrivals at each of the stations along the way (I included Gananoque and Brockville as they are arguably an extensions of the Lakeshore):

Oshawa		14

Kingston 	13

Cobourg		9

Belleville	8

Brockville	7

Guildwood	5

Port Hope	3

Napanee		2

Trenton Jct.	2

Gananoque	1

You posted almost the same table a year ago, to which I replied with this more detailed table and the following comments:

Originally Posted by Urban_Sky

It's not just about the number of connections offered between these cities and Toronto (or Ottawa or Montreal), it's about the number of connections offered between these intermediary cities:

Note: I'm ignoring connections which depart less than 30 minutes after a previous train serving the same O-D.

There is currently not a single connection between Montreal and Gananoque, Napanee, Trenton Junction or Port Hope (and v.v.), just like there is no connection from Ottawa to Napanee or Port Hope and Ottawa (though there are 2 connections in the opposite direction). Even between the major cities along the Kingston Subdivision (Cobourg, Belleville, Kingston) certain O-D's are surprisingly infrequent, such as Kingston=>Cobourg (6x, though 8x times in the opposite direction) or Belleville=>Cobourg (5x, opposite direction: 6x), and with substantial gaps like between Belleville and Cobourg (#41 departs at 8:16, #65 is the next connection at 14:27, i.e. more than 6 hours later). The current timetable is the result of trying to serve two distinct markets with different needs (end-to-end markets desiring short travel times vs. intermediary markets requiring frequent and multiple stops), but separating the two markets and serving them with two different routes will allow intercity trains to do what they can do best: providing reasonably fast and frequent connections along a string of cities...

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Urban_Sky

You posted almost the same table a year ago, to which I replied with this more detailed table and the following comments:

Yes I did post something similar, though it was based on westbound trains. As I explained in my newer post, "Eastbound is arguably a better representation of the existing schedule" so I thought it worth redoing.

As for your response to my post a year ago, I did say:

Originally Posted by roger1818

There will also be improved connectivity between those intermediary cities as more trains will stop at both cities.

[Allandale25]

Noticed this tweet which links to this survey.

https://twitter.com/kellyelliottmcm/...19970678706177

https://www.ontario.ca/form/survey-c...estern-ontario

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Allandale25

Noticed this tweet which links to this survey.

https://twitter.com/kellyelliottmcm/...19970678706177

https://www.ontario.ca/form/survey-c...estern-ontario

Just to be clear, this is about south-western Ontario HSR and would not affect Eastern Ontario (the train would not travel east of Toronto).

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Allandale25

Noticed this tweet which links to this survey.

https://twitter.com/kellyelliottmcm/...19970678706177

https://www.ontario.ca/form/survey-c...estern-ontario

Post it on the main Via thread by swimmer_spe.

[roger1818]

High Frequency Rail: AECOM and Arup consortium selected as Owner's Engineers

---

NEWS PROVIDED BY
VIA Rail Canada Inc.
Jan 28, 2020, 18:33 ET

---

MONTRÉAL, Jan. 28, 2020 /CNW Telbec/ - The Joint Project Office (JPO) between VIA Rail Canada (VIA Rail) and the Canada Infrastructure Bank (CIB) announced the hiring of a joint venture formed by AECOM and Arup, that will act as the Owner's Engineers for the analysis of the High Frequency Rail (HFR) project in the Québec City - Montréal - Ottawa - Toronto corridor.

"We are pleased to have secured the expertise of these renowned firms. This is an important step of our mandate to complete the de-risking engineering and technical analysis; which are components required for a final recommendation on High Frequency Rail", said Vernon Barker, Project Director of the JPO.

The owner's engineers (OE) role during the pre-procurement due diligence phase is to support the Joint Project Office with all technical and engineering matters and form an integral part of the JPO team.

The OE's scope of work includes general technical and engineering support for all of the JPO workstreams and specific planning and engineering activities. The OE will also support the JPO in obtaining an environmental assessment and undertaking site investigation studies, including geotechnical studies.

The decision to contract this consortium was made after a rigorous competitive procurement process and a thorough evaluation of the proposals.

In 2019, the Canada Infrastructure Bank committed $55 million in funding for planning and pre-procurement work and working with VIA Rail to further explore VIA Rail's proposal for the High-Frequency Rail project. The Government of Canada added $16.1 million in funding for Transport Canada and VIA Rail to support VIA Rail's contributions to the important work of the JPO.

About the High Frequency Rail Project
High Frequency Rail (HFR) is VIA Rail Canada's proposal to transform passenger rail service in Canada. It would create new trains on dedicated tracks between major centres (Québec City-Montréal-Ottawa-Toronto). New routes would be established on discontinued and lower density rail infrastructure between Toronto-Peterborough-Ottawa, Ottawa-Dorion-Montréal and Montréal-Trois-Rivières-Québec City. The High Frequency Rail project involves separating passenger and freight rail operations, creating more capacity for sustainable transportation for both people and goods, as well as the opportunity to optimize current services along Lake Ontario and the St. Lawrence Seaway.

About VIA Rail
As Canada's national rail passenger service, VIA Rail (viarail.ca) and all its employees are mandated to provide safe, efficient and economical passenger transportation service, in both official languages of our country. VIA Rail operates intercity, regional and transcontinental trains linking over 400 communities across Canada, and about 180 more communities through intermodal partnerships, and safely transported over 5 million passengers in 2019. The Corporation has been awarded five Safety Awards and three Environment Awards by the Railway Association of Canada since 2007. Visit the "About VIA Rail" section at https://www.viarail.ca/en/about-via-rail.

About Canada Infrastructure Bank
The Canada Infrastructure Bank (CIB) has a mandate to invest $35 billion in complex infrastructure transactions via innovative financial tools over the course of 11 years. The CIB is attracting investment from private sector investors and institutional investors, in infrastructure projects in Canada or partly in Canada that generate revenue and that are in the public interest. The CIB has a unique expertise in infrastructure financing and provides advisory services on transformational projects.

SOURCE VIA Rail Canada Inc.


For further information: Félix Corriveau, Canada Infrastructure Bank, fcorriveau@cib-bic.ca, 416-550-0900; Marie-Anna Murat, VIA Rail Canada, medias@viarail.ca, 1-877-393-8787

https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...858078227.html

[Truenorth00]

Really not sure what this announcement means. They still aren't closer to an EA. Or even a funding plan.

[acottawa]

I would take it as a positive step. It means they recognize the lack of in-house engineering capacity and want to have experts representing them through the process.

I wish the city of Ottawa had done this during the Confederation Line process. It might have been a smoother implementation.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I would take it as a positive step. It means they recognize the lack of in-house engineering capacity and want to have experts representing them through the process.

I wish the city of Ottawa had done this during the Confederation Line process. It might have been a smoother implementation.

I would never have expected VIA to not source outside help. They don't have experience with something this big.

I'm just disappointed at the pace of all this. If the engineering consultants are just being hired now, it's looking like no shovels in the ground for years. I was hoping this might say least start construction in 2-3 years so that it could enter service in 2026. It looks further away than that now....

Any delay adds political risk.

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I would take it as a positive step. It means they recognize the lack of in-house engineering capacity and want to have experts representing them through the process.

I wish the city of Ottawa had done this during the Confederation Line process. It might have been a smoother implementation.

The City did have Owner's Engineers for Stage 1 and Stage 2. It is VERY common practice to retain Owner's Engineers to develop a proper project agreement leading up to and during the bidding process. You should see this as a positive step that VIA is prepping to initiate an RFP process.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Multi-modal

The City did have Owner's Engineers for Stage 1 and Stage 2. It is VERY common practice to retain Owner's Engineers to develop a proper project agreement leading up to and during the bidding process. You should see this as a positive step that VIA is prepping to initiate an RFP process.

Who were they? I can’t find any reference anywhere, and almost any engineering company of any size was involved in either the preliminary engineering or one of the bids or the construction.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Who were they? I can’t find any reference anywhere, and almost any engineering company of any size was involved in either the preliminary engineering or one of the bids or the construction.

Probably these guys: https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...rt-we-cant-see

(Morrison Hershfield, STV Canada, URS Canada and Jacobs Associates)

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

Probably these guys: https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...rt-we-cant-see

(Morrison Hershfield, STV Canada, URS Canada and Jacobs Associates)

Correct (I think) - and if you have issue with the City's requirements for certain stations (or other technical requirements), you can primarily blame these guys.

I have to say - picking Owner's Engineers is probably tricky - you want good reputable firms, but you also don't want to award the Owner's Engineers contract to someone you would like to see bid on the main contract.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Multi-modal

Correct (I think) - and if you have issue with the City's requirements for certain stations (or other technical requirements), you can primarily blame these guys.

I have to say - picking Owner's Engineers is probably tricky - you want good reputable firms, but you also don't want to award the Owner's Engineers contract to someone you would like to see bid on the main contract.

Capital Transit Partners did the preliminary engineering. AFAIK that is a different role than an Owner's Engineer. I have never seen any reference to there being an Owner's Engineer for the Confederation Line (although I would be happy to be corrected, but then would also wonder about their competence).